Lion of the Blogosphere

As Lion predicted, Biden wins election

I’ve been waiting for things to settle down a little before I wrote my I-told-you-so post. Since way back in 2019 I’ve been saying that Trump would not win re-election.

Part of the calculation was that polls were so in favor of Biden that, even if Trump beat the polls by a substantial amount, he would still lose. It turns out that Trump did beat the polls by a substantial amount in some states, so once again the polling industry did a crappy job. I’m going to have to side with conspiracy theorists here. The polls could only be so bad because the pollsters intended them to be bad because people like to vote for a winner, so creating the perception that Biden was winning would bring out more votes for Biden.

The above probably explains why the media never fully acted like Biden had the election in the bag. They probably knew all along that the polls were rigged to exaggerate Biden’s lead over Trump.

Another part of the calculation that Biden would win was that the mainstream media had given up on being nonpartisan, and would do everything they could in order to ensure a Biden victory. And that too is what happened.

Even though Trump did much better than I expected, he did less better than it seemed on the night of the election as more mail-in ballots have been counted. Trump may have doomed his re-election with his insistence that his supporters not vote by mail. As a candidate, you want people to vote for you by any which way they can.

At the end of all the counting, Trump lost the big-three rustbelt states of PA, WI and MI which he won in 2016, plus also probably lost GA and AZ, two states that have voted for the Republican candidate for president for longer than some people voting last week have been alive.

If only Trump had taken the virus seriously, he probably would have won another four years in office. But it’s a testament to the power of cult-belief that so many people voted for him anyway despite how bad he’s been and how he has continually lied and bullshitted about the pandemic.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

November 9, 2020 at 1:37 PM

Posted in Politics

139 Responses

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  1. Well, it’s a close race and what happens if Trump doesn’t concede. And his backers are just as fervent as the deranged masses on Saturday. There are also a lot of shy Trumpers out there as usual.

    And I told ya so…I’m betting on a new status marker for Manhattanites and the Brooklyn SWPL types who are moving to the Hudson Valley, away from the city as we speak. I see no stopping of the exodus for those with means to escape the pandemic carnage that has already seal the fate of “The Greatest City of the World”.

    NNYC (North of New York City), where the Greatest City in the World extends into the northern reaches for those who could afford it. 2nd homes become 1st homes and living in NNYC and the occasional trip to NYC aren’t afforded to proles.

    Ok, what, who's this again?

    November 9, 2020 at 1:50 PM

    • When I saw the username and the first sentence which was actually on-topic, I thought “now how is he going to tie this into SWPLs and the Hudson Valley?” And sure enough, you did not dissapoint.


      November 9, 2020 at 6:54 PM

    • > I’m betting on a new status marker for Manhattanites and the Brooklyn SWPL types who are moving to the Hudson Valley

      Today Show host Savannah Guthrie can virtuously signal her agreement with you from her 2nd now 1st home in Rhinebeck.


      November 10, 2020 at 12:01 PM

      • There are SWPLs and then those who are greater.

        A visit to the Museum of Modern Art last year in NYC, I was able to see the shocking parochialism and lack of credibility among the curators who managed a few of Edward Hopper’s paintings in the various wings that have a lot meaning in today’s pandemic era. Not one of them have ever visited his childhood home, which is now a museum in Nyack, Rockland County. Given the easy commute that one is able to embark, the museum isn’t too far off from Grand Central Terminal where a train ride and then a bus ride over a bridge named after Andrew Cuomo’s late father takes you to this magical place.

        Ok, what, who's this again?

        November 10, 2020 at 2:07 PM

      • JS, you talked to the museum curators about the exhibit?


        November 10, 2020 at 6:58 PM

      • Yeah, one of them. And I asked her if the other curators have been to Hopper’s home in Nyack, NY. She said I don’t think so, most likely not.

        Ok, what, who's this again?

        November 11, 2020 at 6:24 PM

      • This recent article proves that I’m correct to say that a shuffling of demographics is taken place during this pandemic. The wealthier and poorer are switching sides.

        Follow the River, Follow the Money:

        Many NYC residents who are looking to escape the pandemic have headed up to the Hudson Valley, but are not wealthy per se. However, they are wealthier than the NAMs who live there, causing the locals who are poorer to move elsewhere that is less conducive to gentrification.

        If the pandemic continues to get much worse than we expected, Manhattan might see an influx of NAMs from regions such as the Hudson Valley, which is now being colonized by city residents with means to flee the Big Apple.

        Ok, what, who's this again?

        November 11, 2020 at 9:24 PM

  2. Trump will not give up. He will start his rallies and continue them until 2023 – when he will tease the media and his fans about starting his election campaign for Trump 2024. He will wait until the the last possible minute and then put his support behind whoever kneels before Trump, the “Trump the King Maker”. He will make a deal with his choice about 1 or two of his clown children in the administration. Ideally as Vice President. Ahh, yes the Art of the Deal. Well played Sir Trump, well played…..

    It could be Nicky Haley / Ivanka Trump vs Kamala Harris / Pete Buttigieg. 2 Indians, a gay, and a dumb blonde. The perfect Lion combination to lead us against our future Chinese overlords from Beijing.

    Question from Lion: When will we have a Chinese president, now that we are going to have an Indian in the white house.


    November 9, 2020 at 1:56 PM

    • Anyone that Trump favors in 20024 will probably not get nominated and will definitely lose in the general election. If a Covid-19 vaccinations start in early 2021 and most people are immunized by 2022, there will be a huge economic boom due to built up demand. There will be a second roaring 20’s.


      November 9, 2020 at 5:04 PM

      • “there will be a huge economic boom due to built up demand”

        I wouldn’t bet on it. What I expect is a rotation in which industries are making money as things return to normal. A lot of economic activity never really dropped off and some businesses actually boomed as people adjusted their lives. Those will take a hit as things “return to normal”.

        Of course, certain types of businesses were harder hit such as restaurants, bars, airlines, cruises, etc. Those will come back. But I don’t expect people to drive more or go to restaurants more to make up for the times they didn’t. Most of that revenue is simply lost. If there’s a “boom”, it will be in things people have been postponing (i.e. elective surgeries, etc.) And I’m not convinced there’s enough “built up demand” in enough industries to create a “huge economic boom”.


        November 10, 2020 at 7:41 PM

  3. MEH 0910

    November 9, 2020 at 2:00 PM

  4. While Biden did win, I think the results of last week’s contest nevertheless demonstrate that your brash overconfidence back in 2019 was unwarranted. Take away covid and I think Trump would have won handily.

    One of the bigger takeaways of this election’s results are that a lot of the lazy assumptions — very much on display in your 2019 post — about who Trump most appeals to are wrong. He is far more popular with the young, and less so with the old than generally thought. Likewise, while he still loses the minority vote by a wide margin, he nevertheless won a wider share of it than any republican in decades. His cult of personality is based on so much more than race based identity. There is something about his character, and his total approach to, and place in the world that appeals a to a very wide crosssection of all different kinds of people, and on a very deep level.


    November 9, 2020 at 2:05 PM

    • He didn’t win a wider share of the minority vote than any Republican in decades, though. I just saw a blog post somewhere on this in the past day or 2. Wish I could find it now, but it showed that while Trump did better among various minority groups than he did in 2016, neither his 2016 share nor his 2020 share were particularly remarkable and were well within the bounds of the typical minority vote in Presidential elections in the past 20-30 years.


      November 9, 2020 at 7:00 PM

      • Considering that minority turnout was up, everyone should realize that getting 12% of a much bigger number is actually worse than getting 8% of a much smaller number. The delta is votes means that more blacks actually voted against Trump in 2020 than in 2016.


        November 10, 2020 at 1:18 PM

      • Yes, he did win a wider share of the minority vote than any Republican in decades. You’re right it wasn’t a huge amount more. But it could have consequences if it is electorally concentrated – it probably helped hold a few senate races and more than a few house races – especially in Texas and Florida. If by “well within bounds of the typical” you mean “not ridiculously higher than normal” than I agree with you.


        November 10, 2020 at 4:17 PM

      • Trumps success with Latinos was similar to results in other elections (depending upon problems with polling). GW BUSh did better than Trump with Latinos.


        November 11, 2020 at 8:02 AM

    • Agree with JM. Most of that 2019 posting turned out to be incorrect.


      November 9, 2020 at 8:00 PM

      • “Take away covid and I think Trump would have won handily.”

        No doubt about it. Before the pandemic the economy was rocking and the election was Trump’s to lose. A prediction based on something unforeseen is no better than a coin toss.

        “Most of that 2019 posting turned out to be incorrect.”

        Leon has a habit of cherry-picking which predictions he brags about. He makes 10 predictions, brags about two and forgets the other eight.
        As I said when he first started making those predictions, anyone making election predictions more than a year in advance is a tool. Things don’t start falling into place until the last few months.


        November 10, 2020 at 8:09 PM

  5. So, why did you vote for Biden? You give an impression to be smart enough to understand Biden isn’t good for this country. If Russia or China wanted to undermine US, they would certainly support Biden, it’s a no-brainier. There’s nothing good will be coming out of Biden admin for Americans. There’s some upsides as he’ll further discredit establishment and MSM and will do it four years earlier now, and also won’t be running for reelection, plus lots of MSM types will lose their ratings and will be out of job.

    When you ready to vote for just about anything but Trump, even for an old mattress, that’s what you get for the next four years– an old putrid mattress as the president.


    November 9, 2020 at 2:06 PM

    • Indeed, if you follow the “Since way back in 2019” link in Lion’s post, and from that post click on the “what I wrote three months ago” link, you will see that in July 2019 Lion wrote the following:

      I’m just telling you the facts, I’m not happy about this. A Democratic president means open borders. How many tens of millions of the world’s poor will rush in? Could it even be hundreds of millions? Is the United States doomed?

      Now he thinks having a President who “acts presidential” by wearing a mask to set a good example for the proles is worth dooming the United States with open borders.


      November 9, 2020 at 9:22 PM

      • Lion isn’t alone. A lot of Americans think the “act” of being Presidential is more important than policies. I’ve heard that argument myself, although usually from dopey lefties, not someone on the right.

        Mike Street Station

        November 10, 2020 at 6:35 PM

  6. Get ready for a torrent of “Trump didn’t actually lose” comments.

    I think Trump largely lost because of his personality. This can be especially seen in split-ticket voting, people who voted against Trump but voted Republican the rest of their tickets. I know a lot of people in conservative Christian circles who voted this way; I decided, after much soul-searching, to do the same (voting third-party for President, Republican everywhere else). Trump is bad press for Christians, and his elevating of Paula White is disgraceful.

    Trump tried to buy the white Evangelical vote, but the fact is that “ends justify the means” rationalizing can only carry one so far with educated Christians when a man won’t even pretend to be decent, to have learned a thing in four years. If Trump had conducted himself decently and respectfully in his first Biden debate, it would have been worth three Amy Barretts.

    And just as Christians voted “against their interests”, for the sake of decency and normalcy, I think many right-leaning college-educated suburbanites, especially women, voted against Trump despite personally benefited from his handling of the economy, just because they personally disliked him and his total refusal to act more Presidential, like a “normal President”.

    The only person I know who seems to have voted against Trump primarily for virus-related reasons is a rather eccentric tech nerd who moved his family out to the boonies (mountain home 2-3 hours outside any major metro area) a few years ago, for reasons I don’t fully understand. The virus might be a bigger issue up North, but here in the South, I just don’t see many people angry at Trump over his handling of it. The people who deny the virus are all conservative proles, but many conservatives are concerned about the virus while viewing it as basically a force of nature that politicians can’t do much about.


    November 9, 2020 at 2:28 PM

    • The quants have all noticed that Biden ran ahead of other Democrats in the same states or congressional districts. Look at Georgia where Biden ran ahead of Ossoff. When Trump was on the ballot, voters did not see the need to reject Republicans. The opposite occurred in 2018 when the only way to reject Trump was to reject Republicans in other races.


      November 9, 2020 at 5:06 PM

    • I agree. If you know how someone felt about Trump in December 2019 you generally know how they feel about masks, Trump’s performance, etc. Trump’s personality did him in. His first debate against Biden was also a disaster and probably swung a lot of undecideds against him.

      Peter Akuleyev

      November 10, 2020 at 12:17 AM

    • I agree. I could not bring myself to vote for Trump, although I voted Republican in much of the undercard. I note that in conservative Williamson County, Texas, with 8 races in contention, the Republicans won all offices except that of President and Sheriff (incumbent Republican being under indictment).


      November 10, 2020 at 9:16 AM

    • Wency, I don’t want to cast stones, but when you were voting did you think about how many more foreigners Joe Biden may blow up with drones, or kill in an uprising he foments?


      November 10, 2020 at 7:08 PM

      • Of course he didn’t. GOP Evangelicals don’t care about human life at all, unless it’s before birth.


        November 12, 2020 at 9:36 PM

      • If we’re going calculus of lives, then Biden’s position on abortion is more relevant than whatever nonsense the Pentagon gets itself involved in (other than nuclear war).

        But really, no one’s vote affects anything — odds are, it’s not even the most morally significant act you engage in that day. So we all develop our little moral rubrics to justify our votes to ourselves, our neighbors, and God.


        November 13, 2020 at 4:12 PM

      • If you really care about blowing up foreigners with drones, than Trump is not your man either. Trump has simply stopped reporting civilian drone casualties, but the US use of drones in Afghanistan and Pakistan increased under Trump. That is one aspect of American foreign policy where Trump and Biden are aligned (notice it never came up in the debates.) Yemen is a humanitarian disaster, and Trump has aided the Saudis every step of the way in destroying that country. Trump also tried to foment an uprising in Iran but failed. Trump is in no way the “anti-war” candidate. Americans aren’t allowed to vote against the Forever War.

        Peter Akuleyev

        November 14, 2020 at 5:22 AM

      • “If we’re going calculus of lives, then Biden’s position on abortion is more relevant”

        How do you make that calculation? Biden’s position on abortion is pretty much entirely irrelevant. It’s not as if Democratic Presidents are going around encouraging women to have abortions or Republicans are stopping them. Most abortion laws are at the state level. If Biden fails to overturn Roe v. Wade Biden will have been just as effective as Reagan, Bush or Trump in stopping abortions. The only effect the President really has on the abortion debate is nominating a Supreme Court Justice, and at this point it is very unlikely Biden will be able to move the court or pack the court in a more liberal direction.

        And credit for creating the current Court goes to Mitch McConnell, not Trump, so if (big if) abortion actually is outlawed, thank Mitch, and remember that the Senate is actually far more responsible for abortion policy than the President.

        Peter Akuleyev

        November 14, 2020 at 5:32 AM

  7. to sum it up -you were right but just barley and not for the right reasons . If the elections would have been taken place at the time you wrote the post in 2019 then trump would have won,


    November 9, 2020 at 3:01 PM

  8. Trump never stood a chance. The combined forces of big business, big labor, tech, the media, and permanent Washington were all arrayed against him. Even Fox News too, with the exceptions of Hannity, Ingraham, and Carlson.*

    What I find amusing in a way is the double standard of some establishment GOP types like Romney and the Bushes. They claim there’s no evidence of voting irregularities, and that Trump should suck it up and accept defeat. You mean the way Bush 43 did in 2000…oh wait.

    * The Murdochs will doubtless tell Hannity and Ingraham that if they want to keep their jobs they’ll have to go back to cheerleading for the GOP establishment, and they’ll probably go along, while Tucker says “no thanks.” The foaming-at-the-mouth left is seething and wants Tucker off the air, so expect some ginned up allegation of past racial insensitivity or sexual misconduct to surface. That will give Fox News the pretext it needs to get rid of him and all the headaches from advertiser boycotts and whatnot. So does he end up on OANN or Newsmax, or somewhere else?

    Sgt. Joe Friday

    November 9, 2020 at 3:21 PM

    • I should add to those arrayed forces the coronavirus and the riots.

      Trump bungled the virus response, but even if he hadn’t, it would have been reported that he had.

      Ordinarily rioting will work to the benefit of the candidate perceived as “law and order,” but the media portrayed George Floyd and all the others not as felons resisting arrest, but as down-on-their-luck guys, “aspiring rappers” who happened to get rousted by the cops. So rioting and property destruction was therefore expected and justified..

      And let’s not forget Jared Kushner’s role in this. His stupid goddam prison reform and “Platinum Plan” undoubtedly turned off some number of voters who turned out for Trump last time. Maybe not enough to give Trump the popular vote, but maybe enough to cost him the electoral college.

      Trump’s loss can be likened to a plane crash. More often than not, planes crash not because one thing goes wrong, they crash because multiple things go wrong at the same time.

      Sgt. Joe Friday

      November 9, 2020 at 6:19 PM

    • They’ve already tried that once against Tucker, and it didn’t stick:


      November 9, 2020 at 9:19 PM

    • Fox: get woke, go broke.


      November 10, 2020 at 3:19 AM

    • If Tucker does end up exiled to OAN I think a lot of the Fox audience follows him.

      Mike Street Station

      November 10, 2020 at 6:02 AM

  9. If Trump lost because of the virus, you were likely wrong when you said he was going to lose in 2019, which was before the virus, no?


    November 9, 2020 at 3:37 PM

    • With no Covid-19, the Democrats would have run a much different campaign with more GOTV and more campaigning. Trump would have still found things to be stupid about.


      November 9, 2020 at 5:07 PM

    • Lion was probably right because the virus didn’t matter that much in the end. The communities most affected went strongly for Trump, no Republicans other than Trump were punished. The Democrats and Biden lost more votes due to BLM and the riots than they gained from the virus. Question is whether riots would have taken place without the virus? Thanks to the Trump checks a lot of poor people are actually better off than they were four years ago. Another lesson Trump learned from the Dems is that if you give people money, they will vote for you. That’s why Trump had unprecedented minority support. But he lost white suburban women and that also had little to do with the virus.

      Peter Akuleyev

      November 10, 2020 at 12:09 AM

      • Blacks and Latinos have been hit the hardest by Covid-19 and did not go strong for Trump. They voted within the error bars for expect minority voting. The states that had been hit the least in the first and second wave (the Dakotas, etc) where the places where Trump did the best.


        November 11, 2020 at 8:05 AM

    • Lion’s argument at that time was Trump would lose because of demographics. Looking at the same information, I thought Trump was a long shot, but there was still a possibility depending on turn out.

      Mike Street Station

      November 10, 2020 at 6:04 AM

  10. Congratulations, you got your wish. I hope you’re happy. Your man Biden has already announced a black female affirmative action hire whose career has focused on “health equity research” as a co-chairwoman of his coronavirus task force.

    And Biden didn’t “win” because legitimate mail-in ballots were legitimately counted, or because he legitimately won PA, WI, MI, GA, and/or AZ. He “won” because corrupt election officials artificially generated extra Biden ballots in those states.

    Many of us who voted for Trump didn’t do so because we thought he’d been great on the virus. We did so in the hopes of stopping wokeism, SJWism, and mass nonwhite immigration, all of which are far, far greater threats to America than the Wuhan Chinese virus, no matter how hysterical you get over it.


    November 9, 2020 at 3:37 PM

    • ‘He “won” because corrupt election officials artificially generated extra Biden ballots in those states.’

      I can’t take that seriously because the conservative bubble has proven to be totally unconcerned with actual facts. Way worse than the liberal MSM.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      November 9, 2020 at 4:10 PM

      • What if Trump stages a coup?

        Ok, what, who's this again?

        November 9, 2020 at 5:18 PM

      • “Way worse than the liberal MSM.” Oh come on Lion! There have always been fringe looneys on both sides, but the mainstream media and Democrat leadership has been in perpetual unhinged freak-out for 4 years. I don’t think there has ever been anything like it before.

        November 9, 2020 at 6:59 PM

      • Way worse than the liberal MSM.

        Dunno. They pretty much chanted “Russian collusion” for three and a half years. If that’s how the game’s played, then the other side is going to chant “stolen election”.

        Plus the optics are bad. The Dems strove mightily to weaken election oversight, and now they have overcome sizable margins with extended counting in key states with a dose of “in your face” attitude. Not a good look.


        November 9, 2020 at 9:17 PM

      • An online betting site today gave Trump a better than 12% of winning. The voting fraud is very real.


        November 10, 2020 at 3:22 AM

      • The ‘Conservative bubble’ are almost entirely partisan, amateur bloggers that make little pretence at professional objectivity and are trying to fill a huge gap in the market. The fact that you hold them to the same standard as professional, billion-dollar mainstream news organisations is both unfair on them and setting the bar for the mainstream media unacceptably low.

        It is the unashamedly tribal nature of the mainstream media that creates the need for such alternative media, and it is also the behaviour of the mainstream media that drives much of the (justified) paranoia of the same.

        prolier than thou

        November 10, 2020 at 12:46 PM

      • The issue isn’t that MSM is totally trustworthy, they are not, but that conservative media is even less trustworthy than liberal media.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        November 10, 2020 at 1:06 PM

      • I agree with prolier than thou. The only way this statement could even come anywhere near remotely resembling the truth is if you count amateur Qanon 4chan posters as “conservative media.”


        November 10, 2020 at 2:17 PM

      • “I can’t take that seriously because the conservative bubble has proven to be totally unconcerned with actual facts. Way worse than the liberal MSM.”

        The liberal MSM spent years pushing a Russian conspiracy theory everyone knew was fake. It resulted in multiple investigations that dominated most of Trump’s presidency. Meanwhile, they ignored a real conspiracy involving the Bidens and Ukraine. Don’t even pretend that the msm is anything more than a disinformation machine.

        Mainstream conservatives have never pushed anything that blatantly false. Of course, the liberal MSM will tout Infowars and Qanon. But those aren’t even remotely mainstream. And the people who watch them know they’re just tabloid infotainment and stagecraft. Even so, people will have a more realistic perspective watching them than watching the msm because it:

        1) makes people question the powers that be
        2) makes people take all news with a grain of salt


        November 10, 2020 at 8:53 PM

      • “Mainstream conservatives have never pushed anything that blatantly false.”

        That Trump would have won but for election fraud? That the virus is a bogus?

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        November 11, 2020 at 5:40 PM

      • What if Trump stages a coup?

        NO, stop giving in to the Leftist frame. Biden’s people are attempting the coup, with massive, obvious amounts of voter fraud, and the media is leading the charge with the way that they are discussing “president-elect Biden” with no mention of the fact that any controversy exists.

        Your Republic is dead, friends.

        S.J., Esquire

        November 12, 2020 at 10:17 AM

      • All the voter fraud is a figment of conservative bubble imagination. How did any Republicans ever manage to get elected anywhere if there is so much voter fraud? Every allegation of fraud winds up being bogus.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        November 12, 2020 at 5:18 PM

  11. Ameriprolestan is doomed


    November 9, 2020 at 3:42 PM

    • Meriprolestan will see a shuffling of people and the re-arranging of status regardless.

      So those who are dual residents of both the urban centers and the scenic outskirts will set the status quo. It’s usually the wealthier and educated types who are setting this trend. The strivers will try to follow them and the delusional and prolier types will remain in the cities 99% of the time.

      Ok, what, who's this again?

      November 9, 2020 at 4:34 PM

  12. It was a bad election for Trump but NOT Republicans. Not a single incumbent Republican lost in House and gained seats instead. Republicans will likely hold senate. So overall a great election for Republicans.


    November 9, 2020 at 3:44 PM

    • Yes. So if one believes there was massive voter fraud, one would have to assume the GOP Establishment was fully behind it.

      Peter Akuleyev

      November 10, 2020 at 12:01 AM

      • Nope. It was because there were tons of fraudulent Biden-only mail-in ballots.


        November 10, 2020 at 10:22 PM

      • Why would people produce fraudulent “Biden-only” mail-in ballots? That would be stupid. Biden-only ballots are actually evidence that the Democrats did a good job getting low information anti-Trump voters to the polls. Now, one may be right to say that is ethically fraudulent – in that maybe stupid low information people shouldn’t have the right to vote, but it is perfectly legal and hard for Republicans to challenge without looking “racist”.

        Peter Akuleyev

        November 14, 2020 at 5:37 AM

    • At least three Republican incumbents lost according to 538 and ABC. However, more Democratic Party incumbents lost and the Republicans held onto open seats in states like Texas that many expect the Republicans to lose.

      However, in 2022, there will not be a single vulnerable Democrat but there will be two open seats currently held by Republicans and a couple of vulnerable Republicans.


      November 12, 2020 at 9:40 AM

  13. One way to describe the election is to think in culinary terms. Trump was like pizza with anchovies: some people really like it, others find it repulsive. Biden was like vanilla ice cream: no one’s crazy about it, but it’s decent and inoffensive.



    November 9, 2020 at 4:08 PM

    • The issue is what happens if Trump refuses to concede beyond the deadline.

      There are plenty of cops and military personnel who are backing him regardless. Trump has a cult following with those who hold firearms and he isn’t like any other politician we’ve seen.

      A dictatorship as they say?

      The deranged masses on Saturday prematurely pop their cork bottles flowing with bubbly piss.

      Ok, what, who's this again?

      November 9, 2020 at 5:09 PM

      • The cops are the only ones who have skin in the game, something to lose. Most of the armed Trump cult are just guys with daddy issues. Unlike the antifa people(the same group if born in richer neighborhoods), they have real fear of prosecution, so mostly just LARP on the internet.

        National Cuckview

        November 10, 2020 at 6:34 PM

      • If Trump stages a coup, then his cult followers with guns would be emboldened. I guess…

        Ok, what, who's this again?

        November 11, 2020 at 6:21 PM

      • By the way, the MSM and also Lion have underestimated Donald Trump. Just a few weeks ago, the liberal media have said that Biden would win by a landslide, because Trump has mishandled the pandemic and supporters are abandoning him. It turns out not to be the case…it was a fairly tight race!

        Ok, what, who's this again?

        November 11, 2020 at 7:30 PM

      • I didn’t underestimate Trump, I overestimated proles.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        November 12, 2020 at 10:02 AM

      • Overestimated wouldn’t be the word, given that the Stunting Guido Paradise is a home to cult followers of Trump and just about anybody who is Republican.

        Taking about full guido extremism right here:

        Ok, what, who's this again?

        November 12, 2020 at 11:40 AM

  14. “If only Trump had taken the virus seriously, he probably would have won another four years in office.”

    Do you think a Democrat president would have handled the virus better?

    It seems to me America would have a lot of trouble with this virus with either party. I’m thinking about Cuomo as Governor of New York and Pelosi’s early attitude etc.

    Antipodean Coward

    November 9, 2020 at 4:54 PM

    • Yes Joe Biden would have handled it better. If you are too stupid to see that, you are blinded by Trump.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      November 10, 2020 at 12:59 PM

      • Given that prolier types hate donning masks because it’s shows a sign of weakness and for other reasons such as a conspiracy set upon by the Democrats, had Trump enforced a lock down and the requirement of mask wearing, one could make an assumption that he would have lost the election by a landslide. His cult followers were in agreement that masks are ineffective and the lock down would hurt the economy.

        Ok, what, who's this again?

        November 10, 2020 at 2:15 PM

      • His cult followers only disbelieve in masks because Trump led them into believing that. Trump could have done the opposite.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        November 10, 2020 at 5:02 PM

      • He called Trump racist for shutting down travel to and from China, which was the responsible thing to do. That’s not an example of handling it “better.”


        November 10, 2020 at 3:01 PM

      • Joe Biden would have handled it better

        The guy who called for open borders when the virus revealed itself?

        You seemed more skeptical of politicians pre-covid.


        November 10, 2020 at 3:58 PM

      • Politics is mostly partisan and Trump has been partisan with the Democrats all along except in the beginning of the year when the pandemic was coming in full swing and our politicos signed off on certain measures to help people who were unemployed, and doling out stimulus checks and ppe loans for small businesses.

        Trump clearly demonstrated that he recovered from the virus (perhaps an act) and told the nation that it is quite harmless, not budging into the narrative of the serious precautions that have been over emphasized by the Democrats. He didn’t want to go along with the Democrats — perhaps thinking this is how you win all your supporters again. Remember, his prole supporters are inherently skeptical of the virus deadly effects in the 1st place.

        Ok, what, who's this again?

        November 10, 2020 at 7:22 PM

  15. I seem to know a disproportionate number of Trump cultists. They were annoying because they didn’t want to have a rational conversation about politics. One Trump lover I knew would respond “Trump in a landslide” no matter what I would say.

    Other cultists I knew expected Trump to win California. When I said no he’s going to lose that state by 30+ points (which he did) they would say “what are you crazy?”. When I would try to explain with California’s demographics it would be impossible for any Republican to win there they couldn’t grasp what I was talking about “Trump in a landslide” is all they could say. Or they would point out nobody went to Biden rallies. I said nobody is voting for Biden they are voting against Trump. That made no sense to them. Trump cultists (not all his voters) must have low IQs.

    That being said I voted for Trump. Mostly because there is no way I am going to vote for the side that supports BLM and Wokism. When early on election night it looked like Trump was going to win the liberals on my Facebook went crazy “How can the majority of Americans be racist?” “Damn there’s a lot of racists”. It was racist this and racist that. Today’s Democrats are 100% influenced and obsessed by identity politics not economic populism or anything else. I can’t stand those people and I sure don’t want to be one of them. Another reason I voted for Trump is I didn’t want Democrats to be rewarded after 4+ years of “Russia Russia Russia”.

    While I am disappointed (but not surprised) that Biden won it helps cheer me up to think of the things Trump did that I didn’t like. One of them was his criminal justice bill which he would brag about anytime he got the chance. I am sure it was Jared Kushner’s idea in an effort to pandle to blacks but Trump embraced it. In the last debate Trump bashed Biden for the 1994 crime bill and his use of the term “super predator”. First of all that was over 25 years ago and today Democrats are pro-criminal across the board. Second of all there really is such a thing as a super predator…repeat offenders. Even if a high % are in fact black it doesn’t make it racist to want them locked up in prison for life. Trump spread the liberal lie that they were in prison for being black, not for any of the crimes they committed. Very sad that both parties are pro-criminal these days. Crime is going through the roof right now and will continue to so as long as we stay soft on crime.

    Jay Fink

    November 9, 2020 at 5:00 PM

    • Trump really seemed to appeal to the sociopath vote. What should really scare most Americans is how many sociopaths there are in America. We have always know how many sociopaths there are in the African-American community but now we know that many more blue collar and middle class whites are sociopaths who have zero empathy for anyone else and cannot comprehend the diversity of the U.S.


      November 12, 2020 at 9:42 AM

  16. Even though turnout was much higher than in 2016, there was been little discussion of turnout by state. It looks like the whiter the state, the better the turnout. For the top 10 states for turnout, Biden was 8 (losing Iowa and North Carolina).

    As has been pointed out by others, if Biden was been declared the winner on early Wednesday morning like a normal election, every would be discussing how badly Trump did instead of talking about fraud.


    November 9, 2020 at 5:01 PM

  17. It’s crazy that all of this happened because Bernie Sanders won the Nevada primary handily. Before that happened, Joe’s campaign was going nowhere. As a result of Nevada, the party freaked out, made sure Joe won the Georgia primary, made several of his competitors drop out to help his cause, and Sanders never recovered. His main qualification for the job is that he’s not Bernie. Give Don credit for knowing that Biden (warts and all) represented the strongest threat to his presidency, which is exactly why he made that phone call to the Ukraine.


    November 9, 2020 at 5:35 PM

    • I give no credit. Polls at the time of the call had Biden leading (mostly because of name-recognition). Trump’s not a far-sighted Machiavellian; he’s a retard-whisperer.


      November 10, 2020 at 4:40 PM

    • I know some people who fear Kamala Harris will take over the Presidency sooner than later and will pick Bernie Sanders as her VP. I say no way. The DNC wants nothing to do with Bernie Sanders. They realize Democrats have become the party of the rich and aren’t going to put a Socialist in the White House. In fact Dems focus on things such as “racism” and environmentalism as distractions to avoid doing anything populist on economics.

      Jay Fink

      November 11, 2020 at 4:02 PM

  18. as lion predicted jimmy burke won $5.875 million in the lufthansa election of 1978.

    bravo! i bow to you sir!

    ballot lives matter.

    November 9, 2020 at 6:15 PM

  19. A Biden win with Republican-controlled senate is the optimal outcome. Gets bozo-in-chief out of the way, senate stops anything too loony from getting through, and allows a competent person more similar to Tucker Carlson to have a shot at winning next time.


    November 9, 2020 at 6:55 PM

  20. I won my bet on the election, made 9/19, with a Ferrari-driving guy. My premise was that the Dems would cheat harder this time, not being overconfident like HRC, an effort which would prevail given that blacks are uncontrollable and big-city election departments are staffed by blacks. Lion, on the other hand, based his argument on erstwhile Trump voters dying off. I seem to have made the more acute prediction, as Lion just hand-waves the obvious fraud away. I mean, if you can estimate how many Trump voters would die 2016-2020, you should also be able to estimate how many genuine ballots would have no marks for anyone but President.

    Alonzo Portfolio

    November 9, 2020 at 7:16 PM

  21. Trump will be inaugurated in January. Lion will be proved wrong again.


    November 9, 2020 at 7:20 PM

    • Not going to happen. Name the lawsuit where the Republicans have been successful in change the vote totals or even creating a reason to change the vote totals.


      November 12, 2020 at 9:48 AM

  22. Abolish mail in votes.
    Cameras in all voting centers.

    Much harder for urban riggers to out-stufg the votes of smart Heritage Americans.

    David 'The Diversity Mastermind' Lammey

    November 9, 2020 at 7:27 PM

  23. If nothing else, Biden’s win in 2020 shines a rather bright spotlight on how terrible of a candidate Hillary was in 2016. Maybe the worst of all time?

    Monday Morning QB

    November 9, 2020 at 7:41 PM

    • Hillary has extremely high negatives. If Biden was the nominee in 2016 Trump never would have been elected in the first place.

      Jay Fink

      November 10, 2020 at 6:14 PM

    • I Kamala any better? Given Biden’s age and health, Kamala could well end up as president.


      November 10, 2020 at 6:28 PM

  24. I am expecting this blog to quietly disappear, as it becomes painfully obvious that Trump was a much better President than Bush or Obama were, and than Biden or Harris will ever be.


    November 9, 2020 at 7:56 PM

    • That’s already obvious.


      November 11, 2020 at 8:34 PM

    • How can a one term president who was inpeached and had above 50% negative ratings the entire term be considered a good president. If President Trump’s ego had not cause the massive failures on Covid-19, Trump could have been easily re-elected but Trump is a narcissistic sociopath that is incapable of thinking past tomorrow.


      November 12, 2020 at 9:51 AM

  25. I’m sickened by this result, as any decent human being should be. And Pfizer announcing their vaccine today is about as horrific as it gets. Now we have a vaccine and COVID will recede into the background.

    Anyone gloating about Trump’s loss should listen closely to Kamala’s demonic laugh. That horrid, chilling indifference is coming for you. It’s a church bell from hell announcing the march of the far left.

    God bless Trump. He fights to the end. And his parting shot will be pulling the curtain from the DNC machine in places like Philly. I’m with him and now and going forward. Don’t concede. We are with you.


    November 9, 2020 at 9:51 PM

    • “That horrid, chilling indifference is coming for you. It’s a church bell from hell announcing the march of the far left”

      Nicely put. It will be a terrible irony for Lion if he actually voted for the candidate that makes any non-conformist blogging impossible.

      I do wonder if maybe Trump’s ‘Samson option’ of calling into question the legitimacy of the election may end up being the most significant thing he has done. If millions of Republican voters realise that the system is loaded against them (which it is, regardless of the level of corruption in this election) then that might be the most profound shift of all, and one that needed to happen.

      Of course I don’t know whether the level of vote fraud was enough to rig the election, but I don’t think Lion or anyone else can seriously deny that the effect of mass immigtration and big tech companies like Twitter and google censoring right-wing content is justification enough for half of America–and indeed, half of the Western world, to stop taking part in a game whose rules were designed to see them lose.

      And we should all thank Trump for revealing that to the world.

      prolier than thou

      November 10, 2020 at 2:05 PM

    • The “machine in philly” gave Trump more votes this time than it did in 2016, part of Trump’s generally better performance with Blacks.

      National Cuckview

      November 10, 2020 at 6:27 PM

    • MEH 0910

      November 10, 2020 at 7:13 PM

  26. Steve Sailer:
    Pfizer Announces Its Vaccine Is at Least 90% Effective

    Why Did Pfizer and FDA Agree to Not Release the News of the Vaccine’s Success in October as the Original Protocol Would Have Required?

    MEH 0910

    November 10, 2020 at 1:17 AM

    • MEH 0910

      November 10, 2020 at 8:12 PM

  27. This is the only reasonable source I’ve seen arguing that election fraud may have happened:


    November 10, 2020 at 1:53 AM

  28. Wow you people are weak. Or maybe just Biden voters too disgusted with Trump? There are blatant statistical anomalies which the world is even cognizant of, but I suppose you just take your gruel and nod your head when the talking head says, “blue good, orange bad?”

    Or, more honestly, you must have cognitions which have been more conditioned to respond to media as if they hold any authority, I.e. are an older crowd who grew up on the boob tube’s radiation. I’m a gen Y and everyone younger than me can see the ugliness because they have naturally been conditioned to see corporate media as false by now, it does not hold any divinating power like it once did. Consider the voting blocks that are consumed by it the most: single women and African-Americans. Two group populations with no leadership, or strong family bonding, to speak of.

    This is Donald Trump we are speaking about. I’m grateful he has the opportunity to expose to the world the continual election fraud which only helps to maintain the erosion of the natural liberties of US citizens.

    A Dilettante

    November 10, 2020 at 9:54 AM

    • Meanwhile your generation voted Biden by a much larger % than the generations you criticize. If only Gen X and older voted , Trump would have been re-elected…by a margin too large to tamper with.

      Jay Fink

      November 10, 2020 at 6:19 PM

    • And the youngin’s haven’t had their brains fried by screens?

      A big part of Trump’s appeal is being the alpha male daddy for people who never had an alpha male daddy.

      National Cuckview

      November 10, 2020 at 6:26 PM

  29. You seem to have completely lost your composure over covid (horribly mishandled in NY by Cuomo).
    What do you think about Michael P. Senger and his claim that lockdowns are basically the Chinese Communist Party flexing their international muscle..

    And you really think Biden has enough brainpower left to manage anything? At most he’ll be a figurehead for unelected technocrats until he’s dumped and Kamala Harris takes over (an idea that should scare you more than a trivial amount).

    cliff arroyo

    November 10, 2020 at 1:49 PM

    • Sounds like a lot of bullshit to me.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      November 10, 2020 at 1:58 PM

    • LOL at the notion that we have been or will be ruled by “technocrats.” As someone who is actually an engineer, the notion that we’d be running things is a moonbat thought experiment. We’re ruled by lawyers, you only confuse the two if you’re the type who’s so dumb that you think someone’s a genius just because they went to college.

      National Cuckview

      November 10, 2020 at 6:23 PM

      • The word “technocracy” has moved beyond meaning rule by technology–i.e., machines–to connoting the philosophy, popular among intellectual elites and UMC and above white collar professional types of today, that rule should be by “experts.”


        November 11, 2020 at 6:28 PM

      • I should have written “wannabe technocrats” basically vox staff-writers. That’s who lion voted to run the country. I’m not sure if he realizes that yet and I will have no sympathy once he does and voter’s remorse sets in.
        Engineers are very good at what they do (it’s still more of a meritocratic field than most) though I wouldn’t want to live in a society run by them either…

        cliff arroyo

        November 12, 2020 at 2:11 AM

      • And thinking about it a little more the voxocrats probably think they’ll be in charge (since so much of his campaign came form vox-type issues).
        They’ll certainly be shoved aside once Biden is in office in favor of party apparatchiks who long for nothing so much as a bipartisan deal to loot the country again and funnel the proceeds to Wall Street.

        cliff arroyo

        November 12, 2020 at 2:24 AM

    • Anyone questioning Biden’s mental ability never mentions how stupid, uninformed, and uninterested President Trump has been for four years. Remember the Fox News interview where President Trump had to ask for help twice and could not interpret a single graph. Also, Hunter Biden will not have near the impact that the Secretary of Failure Jared Kushner has had.


      November 12, 2020 at 9:55 AM

      • Trump is crude and lewd and a blowhard, that’s his public shtick. He also probably has some kind of low-grade autistic disorder (pointed out by an autistic person and… it makes sense) and he wasn’t one fifth as effective as many hoped he’d be…..and Jared Kushner is literally the worst. But he’s the first president to oversee an increase in relative wages among low income workers in decades and decreased low skilled immigration even without the wall.

        Bye to that a Biden government will ruthlessly impoverish the poorest citizens…. just like Obama did.

        cliff arroyo

        November 12, 2020 at 5:49 PM

  30. World leaders do not take Biden seriously, so you need to convince them.

    My 2¢

    November 10, 2020 at 2:36 PM

    • And what s the basis for writing this? Did anyone in the world take Trump seriously or was he treated like an idiot blowhard that never actually did anything.


      November 13, 2020 at 7:04 AM

  31. Trump’s handling of the pandemic was awful, but most Western countries sadly failed on this front as well. Ice Cream Joe for his part denounced Trump’s only useful measure (banning flights from China–ineffectively) as “racist”.

    There are many problems with Trump of which the appalling handling of the pandemic was only one, but at the end of the day I refuse to vote for The Enemy under any circumstances. Trump got my vote, and while it’s exceedingly unlikely he’ll succeed in overturning the election I wish him the best of luck. There is the added benefit that this will further delegitimize the odious regime that rules us.


    November 10, 2020 at 3:09 PM

    • If Biden becomes the president, Trump has made a serious dent on American politics, the MSM media and leaving a legacy with everlasting and problematic residuals like the coronavirus has on NYC and Greater Meriprolestan. The business closures, the exodus of the wealthy to the hinterlands, the forced shuffling of the poor from the suburbs because of the rich are now coming, and the prolier residents being left on their own devices in the urban centers are some of the permanent effects from the pandemic.

      Ok, what, who's this again?

      November 10, 2020 at 8:03 PM

  32. This election was not a mandate for the Democrat Party. Trump barely lost and if this country enforced any kind of election standards for voter i.d., on time ballots and signature verification he would have won. The Republicans held the Senate and made substantial gains in the House. All of this after the conservatives nominated a historic number of federal judges and captured a solid lock on the Supreme Court. Biden will ultimately be a huge disappointment to the left as he will be hamstrung and unable to deliver for the progressives. I don’t care what anybody says about Trump’s antics. He left the GOP, and the country, better than he found it. The last four years was the greatest show on Earth. He is a living legend and the greatest conservative President in the history of the United States.


    November 10, 2020 at 5:16 PM

  33. I hope people here are donating all they can to Trump election defense fund. Donate as much as you can please.


    November 10, 2020 at 7:30 PM

  34. I don’t know whether there’s been enough fraud to swing the election from Trump to Biden. And let’s be honest: neither do you.

    What I do know is that the US election system is an absolute joke. Notwithstanding the indignant protestations of the media, it’s very plausible that there’s substantial and routine fraud.

    Here’s how I voted on November 3rd. I walked into my local voting precinct, told the lady at the table my name, and filled out the ballot she gave me. I didn’t have to provide any ID (that would be voter suppression). She simply took me at my word that I was who I said I was. It would have been trivially easy for me to vote under someone else’s name. I could have looked up the names of people on my state’s voting database, found one who had died or moved (something easily confirmed online) and voted in their name. Or voted under the name of someone whom I personally know has moved.

    And in fact, I’m still registered to vote in another state where I haven’t lived in a long time. This particular state is notorious for having massive numbers of people on the voting rolls who shouldn’t be on them. Since I’m an upstanding citizen, I actually spent a bit of time on that state’s website trying to figure out how to purge myself from their records. There was no clear answer, so after a while I gave up. But again, it would have been trivially easy for me to vote twice: they sent an absentee ballot application to my parents’ address. Anything less would be voter suppression.

    What a joke.


    November 10, 2020 at 9:23 PM

    • According to my state’s election website, I voted in the midterm elections in 2018. While I could be wrong, I don’t remember doing so.


      November 11, 2020 at 6:25 PM

    • My daughter voted for herself and her sister.


      November 12, 2020 at 7:10 PM

  35. The Lincoln Project wants the Democrats to win the Senate runoffs in Georgia:

    MEH 0910

    November 10, 2020 at 10:35 PM

    • The Lincoln Project are a group of wonks who all personally hate Trump and his enablers. They want to destroy any part of the Republican Party that supports Trump as a form of punishment. Of course, one of the reasons that Trump was elected was due to those same wonks being incapable of realizing that demographic trends were going to destroy the form of the Republican Party that they supported.


      November 13, 2020 at 7:09 AM

    • MEH 0910

      November 13, 2020 at 9:54 PM

  36. The main take-away I think should be that GOP should never, from now on, even consider conceding to any electoral reform demands of Dems. There only purpose is to make it easy for Dems to cheat (and Dems feel no qualms about election cheating as it’s purpose is to ‘literally stop Hitler’).

    Fulton County GA went from 295,000 Hillary votes to 390,000 Biden votes. No way that is even remotely possible without massive fraud brought on by new covid election rules like sending unsolicited ballots to everyone on the rolls, no security checks for returned ballots, etc.


    November 11, 2020 at 2:57 AM

    • The vote changed because the college educated whites and immigrants who live in Fulton County could not stand Trump or anyone who worked for Trump. President Trump reminded all of those college graduates of the worst boss or co-worker they ever had. President Trump reminded them of the dumb rich kid from high school who are obnoxious, stupid, vain, and a bully.


      November 13, 2020 at 7:12 AM

  37. So you really believe, Lion, that Trump was down amongst white males because he didn’t go HARD enough on the scamdemic?


    November 11, 2020 at 3:42 AM

  38. Ot – Learning Klingy-con might be of good use in times of war, conflict that sort of thing, when code speak or a crypto-lingo helps you communicate with your allies, not understood by your foes. And we are currently in a perfect storm of conflict in Meriprolestan.

    Ok, what, who's this again?

    November 11, 2020 at 2:05 PM

  39. There is no question that Trump is a unique political figure. He has the ability to get voters excited. In 2016 he boosted the turn out of his voters and Clinton failed to get her base excited about her which allowed Trump to win a narrow electoral college victory by small margins in WI, MI and PA. In 2020 Trump again super charged his voter base and got them to turn out in numbers even higher than 2016. Trump also supercharged the Democratic base and got them to turn out in strong numbers to vote against Trump. Bidden was the perfect Democratic candidate for 2020 because he offends almost no one and that made the election all about Trump.

    Now that Trump has clearly lost and it is not even close, Trump is going to deny reality and pretend that the election was stolen. Senior Republicans know this is nonsense. There is no evidence of any voter fraud that would change more than a handful of votes. Trump however still has leverage over the Republican leadership. Control of the Senate rests on the two run offs in Georgia. Republicans need Trump to super charge his base in Georgia one more time in early January. The price that Trump is demanding is that the Republican leadership support his claim that the election was stolen.

    Trump is dragging the Republican party with him down the rabbit hole. To satisfy Trump’s ego no one can say that Trump simply lost the election. Trump now exists almost entirely in a fantasy world of his own creation, but the Republican party needs him to hold on to power so for the moment they are letting Trump drag them down the rabbit hole with him.

    The question is, once the Republican party has gone down the rabbit hole, can it ever find a way back. Trump tried to deal with covid by calling it a hoax and creating a fantasy that it was no big deal and besides Trump had defeated covid. Trump’s covid fantasies are colliding with reality as hospitals reach capacity in many parts of the country.

    Can the Republican party ever find a way out of the fantasy world Trump and dragged them into?


    November 11, 2020 at 3:15 PM

    • The problem with Democracy is that politicians have to do what the voters want (at least when the voters are paying attention), and the voters want Trump.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      November 11, 2020 at 5:43 PM

      • In the Dem primaries the voters wanted Bernie. Did “the voters” determine that South Carolina would control?

        Alonzo Portfolio

        November 12, 2020 at 9:49 PM

    • A conspiracy theory could indicate that Trump wanted the pandemic to rage on, because blacks and Hispanics have the most to lose from it and then blame it on China. The kind of narrative that makes his constituents feel good and get angry at the Red Chinese who are the biggest nemesis for American proles, because you know, they took our jobs.

      Ok, what, who's this again?

      November 11, 2020 at 7:09 PM

  40. For Christ’s sakes, unless you’re a personal friend of hers, or are first-naming all politicians regardless of gender, stop referring to Harris as “Kamala.” First-naming women while last-naming men is a disgraceful practice that simultaneously dehumanizes men and infantilizes men.



    November 11, 2020 at 6:31 PM

  41. Unrelated to Biden, I think now we are seeing the final show of the Bitcoin. Three years ago it was not yet the top of the bubble.
    When the Bitcoin ETF finally comes to market, it is time to sell. But not yet.


    November 12, 2020 at 4:28 PM

    • Can you elaborate on that?


      November 13, 2020 at 8:58 AM

  42. The title if the post should be: ‘Biden wins elections, but not as Lion predicted’.


    November 13, 2020 at 7:38 AM

  43. The funny this about this election is that Trump ultimately lost suburban, middle class whites while gaining amongst working class Latinos. It looks like Jeb! was right after all…Hispanics really are natural conservatives. If only we had elected Jeb! then we could have built a thousand year cuckservative reich.


    November 13, 2020 at 11:41 AM

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