Lion of the Blogosphere

Thomas Friedman learns nothing in China

Thomas Friedman writes (currently the most-emailed article at the NY Times):

I’ve traveled here with Wendy Kopp, the founder of Teach for America, and the leaders of the Teach for All programs modeled on Teach for America that are operating in 32 countries. We’re visiting some of the highest- and lowest-performing schools in China to try to uncover The Secret — how is it that Shanghai’s public secondary schools topped the world charts in the 2009 PISA (Program for International Student Assessment) exams.

The most important reason, ignored by Friedman because he is an HBD-denialist, is that Chinese children in Shanghai have genetically higher IQs than American children.

The second most important reason, only alluded to, is that Chinese have more widespread middle-class values. Even stupid Chinese people respect teachers and the importance of education. In contrast, a commenter to the article writes about his experience as a teacher in America:

1. I often don’t hear from many parents until April or May, if at all. They do not return notes, emails, or phone calls, nor do they attend parent-teacher conferences.

2. On most days, the only homework I assign is to read a novel for 20 minutes. Only half of the students will do that. I don’t assign any other homework because doing so is an exercise in futility. If I assign homework regularly, many of the kids earn zeroes and fail the class, and then the parents and administrators come to me wanting to know how and why I am failing the kids, what I am doing wrong, and how I am going to improve.

The teacher also mentions a problem of American schools which is always worth pointing out again, which is that we refuse to group students by ability;

In one of my language arts classes I have one 6th grade boy reading at the 12th grade level and one 6th grade boy reading at the 2nd grade level. I am expected to develop separate and equal lesson plans for each boy, as well as for all of the kids in the middle.

I also suspect that the Chinese schools have more strict discipline for problem students than what the American teacher describes:

5. Kids can do whatever they want. My school has no detention. Suspension is a vacation and expulsion is illegal. Almost nobody fails a grade, despite bad performance.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

October 24, 2013 at 7:15 AM

Posted in Education

49 Responses

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  1. I thought you were going to say it was because of Chinese students world-class cheating. I doubt Chinese school authorities would be averse to turning a blind eye to cheating in order to improve rankings either.

    madclassix (@madclassix)

    October 24, 2013 at 9:04 AM

  2. There is also the rather obvious point that the Chinese government has no moral compunctions about cheating on this test and there is no real reason to take the results at face value.

    Peter the Shark

    October 24, 2013 at 9:28 AM

    • Shanghainese kids our butts on US soil too.

      Dan

      October 24, 2013 at 10:15 AM

      • Who is “our”? The current U.S. youth population that is nearly 50% NAM?

        dynkin

        October 24, 2013 at 12:03 PM

    • Actually East Asians are genetically morally superior to whites. Lower crime rate and mor K according to Rushton.

      Bottledwater

      October 24, 2013 at 9:22 PM

      • Rushton is wrong.Northern europeans are superior in most aspects than east asians

        Knoxy

        October 25, 2013 at 1:09 AM

      • Rushton is most certainly NOT wrong

        Bottledwater

        October 25, 2013 at 6:44 PM

      • Actually East Asians are genetically morally superior to whites. Lower crime rate and mor K according to Rushton.

        r/K selection is a poor theory. Whites and Asian birth rates only recently fell behind those of the third world.

        In 1900, Imperial Russia had a birth rate of 6-7. Russia’s rapid population growth was part of the reason the Kaiser’s high command wanted a war with Russia sooner rather than later.

        China had a birth rate of 5-6 as recently as 1950.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        October 25, 2013 at 8:43 PM

  3. While I don’t disagree with you regarding asian IQ, I have also read that China is “careful” about who takes these tests and whose scores are counted.

    islandmommy

    October 24, 2013 at 10:32 AM

  4. This thread is going to be 30 comments of JS bashing Asians is it?

    Well, my two cents is sidestepping that to ask about tracking. Because while official tracking may get cries of racism. I know back in middle school the school had a “advanced math class”. It was suppose to be only for that class, but schedule rotation kept us together for all the classes. Thus, every class of every subject was de facto advanced class with teacher giving accelerated material and extra homework. I don’t know if it was intentional or accident of laziness. I don’t think they would ever admit it anyways.

    Was it just my school or was it pretty normal?

    By high school, the AP classes would fill that for the next level. I know that system exist for most high schools. There was also Honors classes rated a step lower or if AP doesn’t exist but higher than the “College Preparatory” classes (also “Standard” as the lowest, but that was eliminated the year after I graduated from High School). Perhaps some schools didn’t had the Honors class version, but I know AP exist for across the US and that would be de facto tracking for the High School level.

    Dreamer

    October 24, 2013 at 10:43 AM

    • lol. Popcorn buttered and ready.

      L

      October 24, 2013 at 11:36 AM

    • Just Speculating provides this blog a service. Asian worship is prole.

      AP classes exist for bourgeois types. Prole kids can’t even get into them.

      eradican

      October 24, 2013 at 3:58 PM

      • I’ll let TUJ do most of the posting. He and I seem to be on the same page, except he’s nicer with words, where as my rants are usually of raw emotions.

        JS

        October 26, 2013 at 10:45 AM

    • First time commenting.

      My middle school had the same thing, with a couple of differences. We had two sections of advanced math, one by 1 year and one by 2 years. We also had ‘Reading’ which was essentially a second English. Everyone in the 2+ math was oddly also smart enough to be exempt from Reading. We then got an extra elective, usually ‘TAG’.

      I also remember a correlation between band/orchestra and being in at least 1+math. I believe that kept us all in the gym period, too. Obviously, I was 2+math. The long and short of it is that of the 300 or so kids in my grade I think I only knew about 50 of them. The 50 I knew were almost all ‘house kids’ and the other 250 were mostly ‘apartment kids’. I felt bad for the few ‘house kids’ in that lump of 250. Most of them are now they type that will bitch about how terrible public education is. Really, it’s just because they have always been stupid.

      I remember at the end of the first semester of middle school our report cards had a number next to the gpa. 2/300? What’s that mean? I’m 7/300. I’m 1/300! It’s class rank! Best motivation ever.

      The marbles in Lou Holtz mouth

      October 25, 2013 at 12:25 PM

  5. Thomas Friedman is not an HBD-denialist; he is just being careful. His writings from just a few years ago show a preference for immigration from “brainy” people in Asia.

    radicaldesi

    October 24, 2013 at 11:22 AM

  6. Maybe I offer a unique perspective:

    Sure, let’s say China has a much better education system than America does. I’m sure they do. But it sounds to me like China’s education system is all about discipline, discipline, discipline. They tend to come out of school being super-smart, but (based on my experiences with them) they generally aren’t great speakers or conversationalists.
    Whereas America’s youth tend to see school as a social/cultural situation – a chance to interact with other children and express themselves and, oh, learn stuff. Many Americans, if they make the grades to get out of school, have a superior ability to communicate, but as a whole aren’t as smart.

    Perhaps it’s because Americans don’t have as many opportunities (or see it as such a priority) to sharpen their intellectual minds that, thus, their IQs aren’t increasing with evolution as fast as other cultures.

    From my experience, it seems that the American students who most shy away from the social side of school and truly put learning before everything else are the ones that tend to be viewed as the smartest (e.g. “nerds”), but are typically socially shunned for that quality.

    I believe that the ability to communicate effectively in America is everything; so the challenge becomes: how to isolate the “learning” from everything else in the educational environment, without turning our youth into robots.

    brettdonjon

    October 24, 2013 at 12:11 PM

    • “I believe that the ability to communicate effectively in America is everything;”

      ummm except brainy, high paying companies like google & facebook hire on merit instead of extroversion and ‘people skills’. Baristas, wall mart door greeter, waiter etc are suited for those conversationalists, especially when making conversation when giving the customer his change or greeting them at Walmart.

      instituteofeconunderstanding

      October 24, 2013 at 2:08 PM

      • yeah this is completely false. Google is not just an engineering shop anymore. there are TONS of perky ‘good communicators’ in marketing and ad analytics who haven’t coded so much as ‘hello world’ in their lives.

        Google and FB are too large and given their main revenue driver is advertising…there lots of fluff marketing types at bohth places.

        uatu

        October 24, 2013 at 5:41 PM

      • The world’s greatest invention is worthless if people can’t sell it. And in this big world we live in, selling takes effective communicators, or else no one will know it exists! I come from a sales and engineering background, and I’ve seen great, great things that just never caught on.

        brettdonjon

        October 25, 2013 at 2:03 AM

      • Salesmanship does matter. The nature of computer science is almost always about automating tasks. The end result is a large body of code that always threatens to turn programmers into script kiddies. They always need new challenges and innovations to keep their skills sharp so they are not simply recycling existing code to provide known solutions to known problems, albeit in different contexts.

        The problem is, programmers end up innovating their own personal Rubiks cubes instead of innovating in ways useful to end-users. Stability and known functionality often matters more to the user than some wiz-bang innovation, but the programmer may want to deliver something knew just to exercise his chops. That’s why places like Google are so popular. They allow the growth of every programmer’s personal Rubiks cube. Trouble is, there not enough Googles to employ all the innovating computer science majors.

        map

        October 25, 2013 at 12:23 PM

    • This is the same pathetic liberal claptrap painted all over the web.

      Soft skills, assuming they were actively taught in USA schools (which they aren’t), are valueless in the job market. They are assumed to be present at the baseline needed to function well.

      This is exactly the liberal line when trying to justify bad scores and crime rates of NAMS: they point to supposed unquantifiable social capital that is supposed to make our lives better but in reality isn’t anything special, assuming that the ‘vibrancy’ isn’t harmful – which it often is.

      Trust me when I say that Asian kids (and smart white kids) have more than enough social / communication skills to function, on average, in the professional world. Often, they have higher emotional IQs and are able to function better, in my experience, putting your claim on the smart social skills of the dumb kids to rest. I’ve taught high school in North Asia, and so I know what I’m talking about.

      A

      November 5, 2013 at 5:10 PM

  7. Has anyone seen “Not One Less?” It’s a Chinese movie about a 13 year old girl left in charge of a one room rural schoolhouse. It’s mind boggling to see how well behaved and respectful the children are. Sure they were actors but you get a real sense of the culture.

    I’ve mentioned this before but why not separate children by behavior in school, as opposed to academic ability. Children can’t control how smart they are, but they can control their behavior– at least to a degree. That way the quiet stupid ones won’t get in the way of the smart ones who are actually learning, and the badly behaved kids can terrorize each other in separate quarters. If the educrats want “fair” that’s my suggestion.

    islandmommy

    October 24, 2013 at 12:34 PM

    • Zhang Yimou used non-actors to film the movie so they were , technically, not actors. Of course after the movie not much was heard again about the people who starred in that flick.

      Colmainen

      October 24, 2013 at 2:07 PM

  8. Another advantage China had on the 2009 PISA was that only Shanghai was factored in. Shanghai is China’s economic center, so its best and brightest move to the city for study and work. Imagine if PISA was not given to American schools across the country, but just to ones in the Silicon Valley, and you can begin to imagine how this skewed results for China.

    Sid

    October 24, 2013 at 1:13 PM

  9. I believe Phillippe Rushton said that Chinese brains are on average 1 cubic inch larger than European brains. Chinese absolutely dominate the mathematical Olympiad. Even the US, Australian, Canadian and now British team is mostly Chinese. I know of three occasions when I have mentioned these facts to a libtard (young female in each case) and each time they have got upset because they thought that they – middle class whites – were the best and everyone should look up to them. Plus the numerous occasions when middle class libtard parents have found that the quiet Chinese girl or boy from the takeaway wipes the floor with their children at maths. That’s why many libtard whites like blacks, because these whites can feel superior. Libtards don’t like Chinese, because they don’t support the libtard’s internal narrative of how the world is supposed to be.

    martin

    October 24, 2013 at 5:54 PM

    • I guess thats why the superior chinese have a percapita income of 5000$

      Knoxy

      October 25, 2013 at 1:11 AM

      • For some reason, they weren’t smart enough to figure out communism doesn’t work until after trying it for about fifty years. In Hong Kong, after many years of British control, per capita income is around $51,000. Whites have a higher verbal IQ than Asians and you may need that to develop an advanced legal and political system that protects property rights and enables economic growth.

        Mark

        October 25, 2013 at 11:41 AM

    • “. Even the US, Australian, Canadian and now British team is mostly Chinese. I”

      But they still have to move to white countries.They are so smart, but they have to move to countries with dumber people who created a country the Chinese prefer.to their own.

      Twain

      October 25, 2013 at 2:07 AM

      • My hunch is that China will stall, given the fact that their nation is seeing a brain drain, as the elite Chinese want to come to the West. Not to mention, their government is distrustful of anyone who is smart.

        JS

        October 25, 2013 at 11:23 AM

      • The Anglosphere should only accept whites because whites have fewer negative effects on white standards of living. Asians drive down wages for middle and upper middle class Anglos while whites don’t get to compete in Asian nations for jobs. They also drive up the cost of land when Asians cause white flight from “good” increasingly rare schools.

        The money Anglos invest in educating Asians is also a waste of money because Asians don’t make breakthroughs like whites do or deliver the same economic burst of energy. High IQ white immigrants generate more jobs because they are more likely to come up with the “next great idea” like Sergey Brin or Elon Musk.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        October 25, 2013 at 8:49 PM

      • I don’t dispute that whites are in many respects superior to Orientals. But you have to admit that the Oriental is a pretty good stick to hit the libtard with. Instead of contrasting blacks with whites one can instead contrast Orientals with blacks. Blacks are less intelligent than…Orientals. Blacks commit more crime than…Orientals. (Or East Asians as Americans prefer to call them.)

        martin

        October 27, 2013 at 7:56 AM

      • Instead of contrasting blacks with whites one can instead contrast Orientals with blacks.

        But we don’t need a large population of Asians to make that comparison. Nor should we let that argument distract from the fact the entire Anglosphere needs an overtly pro-white immigration and demographic policy.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        October 27, 2013 at 8:55 PM

  10. Regarding grouping students by ability. A couple of years ago, my oldest started middle school at different location from his elementary. All the elementaries fed into it. So it was a very large middle school with 10 classes in each grade. I went on the internet to check their standardized testing. About 1/3 of the students were advanced, 1/3 were proficient and 1/3 were behind. With 10 classes they could have easily had a couple of advanced and remedial classes. So I talked to the teacher, followed by the principal and finally worked my way up to the school superintendent. I explained to each in turn that it’s not possible to have students reading at a 10th grade level and students reading at a 2nd level in the same class and give them all what they need. And that it was unfair to both the advanced and the remedial children. All three of them asked me if I though they should segregate the kids. Now, realize I had met with them each separately. And yet all three used this emotionally and racially charged word to intimidate me. It’s obvious they had been coached by the education establishment to use that word. However, they’re still responsible for implementing it in their district. I’m sure there are a few decent teachers and administrators out there. But I’m convinced that 90% are ideologues.

    destructure

    October 24, 2013 at 6:18 PM

  11. The third most important reason: no NAMs in China.

    E. Rekshun

    October 24, 2013 at 6:24 PM

  12. Didn’t Steve Sailer create PISA results comparing White American students to the rest of the world. I recall white american kids came in 4th place.

    So white Americans came in 4th without 12 hours a day of studying and selection bias favoring Shanghai.

    Now you see why Western countries are so advanced.

    map

    October 24, 2013 at 7:35 PM

    • White Americans were seventh; Asian Americans were second.

      Renault

      October 25, 2013 at 8:21 AM

      • I see. So at 12 hours a day of studying and cheating and self-selecting an intelligent population through immigration and Americans graciously providing Asians with Minority Disadvantaged Business Loans so they can run no-risk, video-game businesses that put them into good school districts with good teachers, the AA manages to come in second being strivers and succeeding in an educational system they did not create.

        My goodness, why are we depriving Asia of their genius?

        map

        October 25, 2013 at 11:07 AM

      • So at 12 hours a day of studying and cheating and self-selecting an intelligent population through immigration and Americans graciously providing Asians with Minority Disadvantaged Business Loans so they can run no-risk, video-game businesses that put them into good school districts with good teachers, the AA manages to come in second being strivers and succeeding in an educational system they did not create.

        High IQ white immigrants like Brin and Elon Musk deliver a better return on America’s educational investment because white talent is what drives scientific and business breakthroughs. These breakthroughs help generate economic activity that employs middle class whites. Asians simply depress wages and displace high IQ whites from jobs without generating as many new career opportunities (although large numbers of white immigrants would also depress wages.)

        The top mathematicians of all time are almost all white:

        http://www.fabpedigree.com/james/mathmen.htm

        1) Isaac Newton
        2) Archimedes
        3) Carl F. Gauss
        4) Leonhard Euler
        5) Bernhard Riemann

        6) Henri Poincaré
        7) Joseph-Louis Lagrange
        8) David Hilbert
        9) Euclid of Alexandria
        10) Gottfried W. Leibniz

        11) Alexandre Grothendieck
        12) Pierre de Fermat
        13) Niels Abel
        14) Évariste Galois
        15) John von Neumann

        16) Karl W. T. Weierstrass
        17) René Déscartes
        18) Brahmagupta
        19) Peter G. L. Dirichlet
        20) Carl G. J. Jacobi

        21) Srinivasa Ramanujan
        22) Augustin Cauchy
        23) Hermann K. H. Weyl
        24) Eudoxus of Cnidus
        25) Georg Cantor

        26) Arthur Cayley
        27) Emma Noether
        28) Pythagoras of Samos
        29) Leonardo `Fibonacci’
        30) Muhammed al-Khowârizmi

        31) Kurt Gödel
        32) Charles Hermite
        33) Aryabhatta
        34) Apollonius of Perga
        35) Richard Dedekind

        36) William R. Hamilton
        37) Pierre-Simon Laplace
        38) Diophantus of Alexandria
        39) Bháscara Áchárya
        40) Blaise Pascal

        41) Gaspard Monge
        42) Felix Christian Klein
        43) Jean le Rond d’Alembert
        44) Jacques Hadamard
        45) Archytas of Tarentum

        46) George Boole
        47) Élie Cartan
        48) Johannes Kepler
        49) Hipparchus of Nicaea
        50) Godfrey H. Hardy

        The Undiscovered Jew

        October 25, 2013 at 8:53 PM

      • Central Asians (who were Armenoid Caucasians in the Medieval Times) have made more advances in the sciences than the East Asians (who are Mongoloid). This book that just came out, proves it.

        http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Enlightenment-Central-Conquest-Tamerlane/dp/0691157731

        When the Mongols nearly obliterated the Muslims and then became converts to Islam, they did not contribute anything significant to the religion, whether be it theology or the sciences that were a trend in Medieval Islam. There is a grain of truth that East Asians lag Caucasians in creative and investigative endeavors.

        JS

        October 26, 2013 at 10:52 AM

      • “Asians simply depress wages and displace high IQ whites from jobs without generating as many new career opportunities (although large numbers of white immigrants would also depress wages.)”

        TUJ must have been reading my rants to formulate his view.

        JS

        October 26, 2013 at 10:58 AM

      • Central Asians (who were Armenoid Caucasians in the Medieval Times)

        Central Asians (i.e., the “Stans”) are Armenoid-East Asian hybrids. Admixture between the two groups happened `5000 years ago. Armenoids covers Anatolia and the Caucuses.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        October 26, 2013 at 6:50 PM

      • “Central Asians (i.e., the “Stans”) are Armenoid-East Asian hybrids. Admixture between the two groups happened `5000 years ago”.

        This would not make any sense, as mix racing between the 2 groups did not exist before the advent of the Mongols in later half of the Middle Ages. Central Asians in the Medieval times were a Persian/Turkic people representative of what you see in Turkmenistan and Northeastern Iran today, where the racial representatives are less Mongoloid and more Caucasoid than let’s say Kazakhstan, which is closer to China and the Mongolia Steppes, where its citizens look indistinguishable from the Asians students at the University of Calfornia at Berkeley.

        JS

        October 27, 2013 at 1:57 PM

  13. A huge amount of kids in China (and India) don’t go to high school. You’re comparing like 50% of the population there to 100% of the population here.

    Minnie

    October 24, 2013 at 9:01 PM

    • And that 100% includes some very, very undesirables.

      E. Rekshun

      October 25, 2013 at 4:38 AM

  14. Minnie, I think you might need to update your view of China. It is my impression, based largely on discussions with Indian academics at conferences I’ve been to in China, that China is closer to the infrastructure and educational standards of developed Western countries than to India. However, even if you look at GDP per capita, it is at 2-3 times the level of India. That’s similar to the GDP per capita ratio between the USA and Mexico.

    I will admit that their wealth and income is still way behind that of the west. But I doubt 50% of Chinese kids don’t go to school. If you ignore ethnic minorities who live in more traditional environments in the Western provinces, I would doubt it would be even as high as 5%.

    I also think Sid’s comment comparing Shanghai to Silicon Valley is unfair. China doesn’t have an equivalent to Silicon Valley because it is still more financially rewarding to be an Imitation Entrepreneur rather than an Innovation Entrepreneur there. Perhaps this will change as their labour costs approach that of developed nations, similarly to Japan. In any case, much of the immigration to Shanghai has not so much been the best and brightest but actually the most unskilled and impoverished migrant workers. What shocked me the most in my visits to China is the attitude of the city locals to these internal migrants – they speak as if they are from a completely different world. However, as the Lion suggests, the poor and supposedly stupid underclass from the countryside still value education for their children more than many middle class whites.

    amploid

    October 25, 2013 at 7:18 AM

  15. Amploid, the average person in China leaves school at age 14 to work full time. I know many people from China as well. Most people go to school, but the PISA tests are given a year after 70% of the population leaves school. Therefore sampling only the smartest 30% of people, because you have to actually apply to and pay for high school.

    Click to access Education-in-China-201011.pdf

    Nine-year compulsory education (i.e. primary and junior secondary education)
    (the first number given is 2009, the others are estimations)
    Enrolment (in millions)
    158 161 165
    Graduation rate (%)
    91% 93% 95%
    Senior secondary education
    Enrolment (in millions)
    46 45 47
    Gross enrolment rate (%)
    79% 87% 90%

    Note from this that 46 / 158, or ~ 30% of Chinese kids graduating from the 9th grade in 2009, go on to age 15-18 education. Minorities are around 10% of the population.

    Minnie

    October 25, 2013 at 9:55 PM

    • Thanks for the informative link, Minnie. However, you have misinterpreted the data (Figure 2, page 5). Senior Secondary Education is 3 years long, as opposed to the 9 years of compulsory education. Therefore, there are approximately 1/3 as many potential students (children the correct age) for “Senior Secondary Education” as for “Compulsory Education”. If you wanted to work out a percentage estimate yourself, you should have done (46/3) / (158/9) which would give you the ratio of students per grade between years 10-12 and years 1-9. That would give you about 87% – meaning 87% of students who complete the first compulsory 9 years will also complete the following 3 years. However, implicit in this calculation is the assumption that the distribution of ages is even, which it is not due to the low birth rate.

      However, the gross enrolment rate is right there in the table, and it says that back in 2009 a total of 79% of eligible students were enrolled in Senior Secondary.

      amploid

      October 26, 2013 at 2:08 AM

    • Minnie, the average person in China does not leave school at 14. I suggest you read the KPMG report again 46 / 158 does not equal 30% of Chinese kids graduating from the 9th grade in 2009, go on to age 15-18 education. This is a test of your math skills : )

      Peter Smith

      October 26, 2013 at 6:32 AM

  16. In case anyone hadn’t seen this article…Cheating is seen as a fundamental right by the Chinese.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/10132391/Riot-after-Chinese-teachers-try-to-stop-pupils-cheating.html

    madclassix (@madclassix)

    October 26, 2013 at 12:33 AM


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