Lion of the Blogosphere

Correlates of higher income at age 29

I’ve long known, from my research with the General Social Survey, that happiness is correlated with higher income. This always seemed obvious because making more money and achieving higher status makes people happier.

But, according to a Wall Street Journal article, happiness also causes higher income based on a recent study that analyzes longitudinal survey data.

But I clicked the link to the PDF of the study, and discovered a very interesting regression analysis:

income_regression

“Coefficients are standardized” means that the coefficients can be compared to each other to see the relative effect of each independent variable. To quote Wikipedia, “In statistics, standardized coefficients or beta coefficients are the estimates resulting from an analysis carried out on independent variables that have been standardized so that their variances are 1. Therefore, standardized coefficients refer to how many standard deviations a dependent variable will change, per standard deviation increase in the predictor variable. Standardization of the coefficient is usually done to answer the question of which of the independent variables have a greater effect on the dependent variable in a multiple regression analysis, when the variables are measured in different units of measurement (for example, income measured in dollars and family size measured in number of individuals).”

First of all, the low R-squared value shows us that the vast majority of differences in income are not being captured by these independent variables. And with only a single yes-no for college, this is not surprising. What does merely graduating from college tell us about the person’s future career track if we don’t know the quality of the college, or the major? Yet surprising, college is the single most important predictor of income of any other variable on the list. (The conventional wisdom that you should go to college to get higher income is correct.)

IQ is relatively unimportant. Self-esteem at the age of 16 is a better predictor of future income than IQ. And both height and “positive effect” (that means feelings of well-being and happiness independent of self-esteem) are equal in importance to IQ. Thus we see that “tiger mom” Amy Chua had it all wrong. If you want your children to be successful, you need to focus on their self-esteem and happiness, and not on their test scores and violin-playing abilities. Upper-middle-class white American parents understand that we live in a society that doesn’t reward a person’s inherent ability to create value.

While noting that IQ is as unimportant as it is, it is probably even less important for people who go to college, because low IQ is a better predictor of poverty than high IQ is a predictor of financial success. In fact, there is other evidence out there to suggest that, after educational credentials are accounted for and for those who have at least a college degree, higher IQ is actually correlated with lower income. (The corollary is that IQ is a useful predictor of income for people who do not have a college degree, because people without college degrees but with higher IQ are more likely to wind up in skilled blue-collar careers. For example, there are many civil service jobs that pay decent middle-class salaries which use g-loaded tests for hiring purposes.)

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

January 5, 2013 at 2:33 PM

Posted in Labor Markets

54 Responses

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  1. Among college degreed people there’s a “sweet spot” of high IQ where income is positively correlated, and then above that it drops off. People in the sweet spot do really well. Smart enough to do complicated things, but not so smart to get a complex about how smart they are or to be unable to function socially due to “weird” beliefs.

    anonymous

    January 5, 2013 at 2:54 PM

  2. No, the Tiger Mom strategy is still good for high IQ/introvert/sensitive kids. The sooner smart kids are given structure the better. When they experience concrete success in school and the ability to learn new things (instrument) the greater their self-esteem will become and more easily they will interact with others.

    To try to give an introvert/smart kid high self-esteem through non-concrete BS will be a mistake. They won’t be able to sustain that like natural born bullshit artists.

    fakeemail

    January 5, 2013 at 3:33 PM

  3. I second the opinion that the tiger mom strategy does work for some kids – namely the intelligent introverts. I realized fairly early on that I’m such a type. My Asian parents actually did try to get me to pick up sports and be more popular, but I know I’d never be particularly successful at life purely through that strategy.

    Only a very limited number of people can become successful by being popular and having a high self esteem. It is important to be well rounded, but for many people, academics is the way to go. The violin is useless waste of time though.

    But I agree with Lion that after a certain point IQ is not rewarded. The few careers for which an exceptionally high IQ has been known to be productive are theoretical physics and a few hard science career tracks. They don’t pay much. The Ivys have known this for a long time and selects for well rounded upper class kids.

    AsianDude

    January 5, 2013 at 4:20 PM

    • i third that sports are not necessarily a winning strategy for everyone. the sport i was best at was badminton, which is pretty stereotypical for a nerd if you think about it.

      ralph

      January 6, 2013 at 2:42 PM

      • Forcing your kid to do a sport he is BAD at a sport will harm self-esteem rather than improve it.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        January 6, 2013 at 3:30 PM

  4. Lion,

    Please read this article (esp. table 4-7) to un-confuse yourself.

    Click to access murray_income_iq.pdf

    In 1993 NLSY data analyzed by Charles Murray, very bright (IQ > 125) siblings made $18k per year more than their normal (IQ within 1 SD or so of 100) siblings, whose average income was $22k. Murray analyzed full siblings specifically to control for family SES effects. The design of this analysis makes it likely that IQ is the primary driver of the income difference.

    The paper you cite regresses simultaneously on many correlated variables, so the conclusions you draw are suspect.

    data

    January 5, 2013 at 4:40 PM

    • Charles Murray is only looking at IQ and income and ignoring the bigger picture.

      Higher IQ is correlated with getting better educational credentials, which in turn are correlated with higher income. IQ is also correlated with having parents in a higher social class who have better career advice and job connections.

      Furthermore, as I said in the original post, IQ *IS* correlated with income for people who don’t have college degrees.

      Murray is mixing all this stuff up together to create the false impression that IQ is everything when it comes to income, when in fact IQ is pretty minor when other more important factors are considered.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      January 5, 2013 at 5:05 PM

      • The dramatic income differences he finds are *between* two siblings who shared the same home environment (SES) but differ in IQ.

        Think some more.

        data

        January 5, 2013 at 5:25 PM

      • That was only one part of the paper. The kid with the higher IQ had more education, and it was the EDUCATION and not the IQ which caused the better career track which then caused the higher earnings.

        And for people who don’t graduate from college, which is the majority of the sample because most people don’t graduate from college, then IQ is a relevant predictor of income.

        Charles Murray has a spin on the data that’s deceptive and creates the false impression that IQ is more important than it really is for earnings.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        January 5, 2013 at 6:00 PM

      • Lion of the Blogosphere said:
        The kid with the higher IQ had more education,

        A mere coincidence that of two siblings, the one with the higher IQ happened to be the one who went to college.

        For a control, we need a country where only low IQ people are allowed to go to college. But, in that country employers would only hire people without college degrees. Then we will all be debating if IQ correlates with higher income or if it’s the fact that they don’t have college degrees.

        Toad

        January 5, 2013 at 8:00 PM

  5. One problem with the study is the sample is young. The IQ-income correlation rises with age and peaks when people are old enough to reach their career potential. The lowest IQ rich people made their money young (athletes, rock stars, jersey shore) at ages where brilliant people are often still in graduate school thus it’s surprising they found ANY positive correlation between IQ and income before age 30 and I’m impressed that IQ is more important than height which always seemed important in my jobs. Also, if you’re happy despite a low IQ it probably means you’re really good looking so they should control for the influence of looks.

    And are there no controls for the income/status of the patents? One reason college might be so important in this analysis is that in the absence of more specific controls, it serves as a proxy for upper class background.

    The Legendary Linda

    January 5, 2013 at 5:25 PM

  6. I also wonder what IQ test was used and what was the range of scores in their sample.

    The Legendary Linda

    January 5, 2013 at 5:28 PM

  7. C’mon, this is stats 101. When you have covariance between the indep variables, you can’t just look at the relative size of the coefficients. That’s meaningless.

    You shouldn’t be looking at a linear regression at all. You’d be better off just looking at a matrix of the two-variable correlations.

    I do agree, however, that since college degree is used as a proxy for IQ, it has slightly better correlation with good outcomes than comparing IQ directly.

    However, in the NLYS data, IQ correlates positively with income even after controlling for college degree status.

    -Mercy

    Mercy Vetsel

    January 5, 2013 at 7:17 PM

  8. Lion of the Blogosphere said:
    “Higher IQ is correlated with getting better educational credentials, which in turn are correlated with higher income.”

    But education is something that can only be done if you are smart. If high paying jobs required an IQ test, you would by saying: “Higher IQ is correlated with getting better IQ test scores, which in turn are correlated with higher income.”

    Why do employers choose to only hire people with college degrees in the first place? They could have a larger pool to select by hiring non college people.

    Toad

    January 5, 2013 at 7:30 PM

    • Employers value college because it’s what all of the other employers are doing. It’s the WAY. No one questions it. No one understands why they do it. No one has given it real thought or scientific analysis.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      January 5, 2013 at 8:24 PM

      • You might want to investigate the concept of “validity” in psychometrics. Then look at large studies done by the US military on effectiveness of recruits in different IQ categories. (The military is exempt from Griggs and filters strongly by AFQT score. I wonder why?) Or look into the field of “personnel selection” and look at IQ validity in performance measures across many job categories.

        Lion is correct that most employers do not know anything about the topics I described above, but that doesn’t mean that the conventional wisdom is incorrect. It may have become conventional wisdom for good reason.

        College completion is correlated with both Conscientiousness and IQ, each of which is a positive quality in an employee. But there are many studies in which all individuals have a college degree and the effect of IQ can be studied independently of educational attainment.

        data

        January 5, 2013 at 9:38 PM

      • As far as I know, everyone in the military of the same rank gets paid the same, and promotions are based on seniority. A clear example of how career track is way more important for determining income than IQ.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        January 5, 2013 at 10:05 PM

      • No they do it because cognitive testing was banned for being discriminatory, they have no choice but to use colleges to weed out people. Because colleges have the privilege of using discriminatory testing like the SAT to weed out people.

        Kaz

        January 5, 2013 at 10:29 PM

      • 99.9% of hiring managers have never heard of Griggs v. Duke Power Company. People hire college graduates because it’s the way things are done and not because they’ve given the matter much thought.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        January 6, 2013 at 12:26 AM

      • Have you ever hired someone?

        Theoak

        January 6, 2013 at 10:14 AM

      • Yes, I have.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        January 6, 2013 at 12:25 PM

  9. […] that I read) about the IQ test and its implications. Some studies mention how IQ and wealth seem to be related, i.e., the higher your IQ the more money you make. (This is not absolute, but there’s a […]

  10. I think self-esteem and IQ are inversely related, aren’t they? At least it seems to me that lower IQ people tend to have higher self-esteem than higher IQ ones. I think there was even a study about that, somewhere.

    What I wanted to know is if there is a stronger correlation between verbal IQ or mathematical IQ and income, i.e. is it better to be good in Math or in Verbal? Asians tend to be good in Math and can be engineers, scientists etc, however, to be really in the elite you’d be a lawyer, politician or someone in the media, where Verbal is more important (to work in finance, however, you need good math skills).

    (For a career in Computer Science, is quantitative more important than verbal? Because programming is kind of like learning a “language”)

    In any case, I have a high Verbal and a low Quantitative (Math) and was wondering about the differences. More silly thoughts about it here in case anyone cares: http://nostalgicfuturist.wordpress.com/2013/01/06/intelligence-verbal-vs-math-or-how-to-be-rich/

    zenocosini

    January 5, 2013 at 8:35 PM

    • Math is good for earning a salary of 100K. But to make a lot of money, verbal skills are better.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      January 5, 2013 at 9:33 PM

      • I was surprised to read the papers back tables that it appears that IQ and Self-Esteem are pretty much defined to be the same thing:

        [i]”Self-esteem (1994) Compared with other people your age, how
        intelligent are you?
        1. Moderately below average
        2. Slightly below average
        3. About average
        4. Slightly above average
        5. Moderately above average
        6. Extremely above average
        “[/i]

        http://www.pnas.org/content/suppl/2012/11/16/1211437109.DCSupplemental/pnas.201211437SI.pdf#nameddest=ST2
        page 4

        If self-esteem is just self reported IQ (and what smart person doent have some idea of their IQ) then ti calls into doubt HS’s conclusion below:

        “IQ is relatively unimportant. Self-esteem at the age of 16 is a better predictor of future income than IQ. And both height and “positive effect” (that means feelings of well-being and happiness independent of self-esteem) are equal in importance to IQ”

        Lion of the Turambar

        January 6, 2013 at 10:26 AM

      • Perhaps it’s mostly the case, but one exception is quantitative analysts also known as “quants”. They are screened (probably primarily indirectly through educational credentials although I’m not sure) rather rigorously for mathematical ability and according to an article on investopedia.com:

        “… an entry-level quant position may earn only $125,000 or $150,000, but this type of position provides a fast learning curve and plenty of room for future growth in both responsibilities and salary”.

        and:

        “… It is not uncommon to find positions with posted salaries of $250,000 or more, and with bonuses, $500,000+ is achievable”.

        Even if the figures are not precisely correct, they probably still give a good indication of the ballpark.

        Here is a link to the article:

        http://www.investopedia.com/articles/financialcareers/08/quants-quantitative-analyst.asp#axzz2HDBtCrJ3

        PS: Please excuse any linguistic errors as I’m only a high school student from and living in a country in which the majority are second-language speakers of English, including myself.

        Animus

        January 6, 2013 at 11:47 AM

  11. IQ is relatively unimportant.

    The IQ threshold for wealth varies between sectors. Promotion in the dreaded value transference industries depends, once a minimal intelligence boundary is hit, on value transference abilities. However, in industries that involve cutting edge science like IT, pharmaceuticals, engineering, etc, the IQ threshold where diminishing returns sets in will be higher. In I-Banking, BIGLaw and BIG Consulting and the like, advancement to senior management will depend more on schmoozing.

    The Undiscovered Jew

    January 5, 2013 at 9:21 PM

    • TUJ has it right IMO. Some industries are doing technically harder stuff. Even in value transference pursuits the needed IQ varies greatly depending on the value transference techniques used. look at the people who write trading models. They are doing value transference. But they have Ph.D.s in physics and math because what they are doing requires that level of brains.

  12. You might be interested in this http://www.howtoincreaseiq.net/benefits-of-a-high-IQ.html. You might get the raw data and fit an empirical conditional expectations curve to it.

    ‘And both height and “positive effect”’

    Should be “affect”.

    Age 29 is too low and log of income is meaningless. The distribution of income isn’t lognormal, and with enough data it isn’t necessary to fit an analytic distribution, the empirical curve of conditional expectations is much better than a straight line regression.

    One must also “back out” the explicit selection for IQ, even though this explicit selection is much less common in Les Etats-Unis Merdeux than it is in other developed countries.

    The career where IQ is selected for most explicitly is that one which requires passing a large number of objective or nearly objective tests. Even so there are many not so smart actuaries.

    Nicolai Yezhov

    January 5, 2013 at 9:54 PM

  13. In regards to several commenters’ issues with the statistical methods here:
    The logic behind these regressions is basically standard in applied statistics. Covariance between independent variables is generally considered okay, as long as one doesn’t have perfect covariance- say, for every 1SD increase in IQ one experiences a 1SD increase in height.
    As far as using the log of income as a variable goes, this is extremely common. Using income itself as a variable can cause extreme problems with skewing of the data, which produces useless results.

    What the Lion failed to mention is that the extremely low R-squared in all models indicates that one should be extremely reluctant to draw any assumptions. Most effects are significant, but they just don’t seem to have much of an impact, as a whole.

    A Statistician

    January 5, 2013 at 11:27 PM

    • I *DID* mention the low R-squared value. This regression analysis would have a much higher R-squared if it factored in college MAJOR and the PRESTIGE of the college.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      January 6, 2013 at 12:28 AM

    • “…Using income itself as a variable can cause extreme problems with skewing of the data, which produces useless results…”

      I take it applied stats means stats used by people who’ve never taken a course in mathematical statistics.

      When the data is sufficiently dense a regression curve, that is, the curve defined by the expectation of Y given some narrow range of X is superior to the assumption of any analytic distribution, the exact opposite of useless or skewed.

      Useless and skewed is the result when log Y is treated as if it were normal. The correlation coefficient is ONLY applicable to mutivariate normal distributions and those seldom seen disrtibutions where E(Y|X) is a straight line.

      Nicolai Yezhov

      January 6, 2013 at 12:51 AM

  14. High self esteem at 16=popular in high school=sociable, basically normal psychologically, probably good looking and athletic=long term trend of likability and fitting in that carries on in future career

    The jocks win basically. For every smart nerdy engineer or computer programmer making a middle class income doing grunt technical work there is a good looking athletic life of the party type guy with a mediocre mind golfing and bro’ing his way to millions. Let it be a lesson to those of you with economic ambitions.

    machomanmadness

    January 6, 2013 at 4:43 AM

  15. I ran the analysis of this on NLSY data over time – i.e. as the participants aged. I simply used iq (asvab), although using both education and iq showed similar but weaker results. This is not suprising as the have high covariance.

    The results showed that as participants aged, the higher iq participants increased their gap with lower iq participants over time, so that the >125 iq had similar income in the 20s as the next category down, but much higher income as they aged. This makes sense since smarter people keep learning and improving their skills at a faster rate than lower iq people.

    MRD

    January 6, 2013 at 7:39 AM

    • One of the best software developers I ever worked would react to bad decisions of an experienced software developer by saying “some people have 10 years experience, others have 1 year of experience 10 times”. It is so true.

  16. In addition, I should mention a huge whole in your theory.

    Basically, if you have a high IQ and do not get far in education or you get low gpa, etc, this indicates that there is likely a hidden variable. You are lazy, you don’t care about social norms or money, etc. Thus, if you hold education constant while letting IQ vary, you are missing this incredibly important hidden variable that is totally messing up all of your analysis. As education stays constant and IQ goes up, other factors (work ethic) very likely go down.

    MRD

    January 6, 2013 at 7:42 AM

  17. I agree with the lion. Self esteem at age 16 matters. How do i boost my son’s self esteem? I figure i should send him to a heavily northeast asian high school…. Compared to the beta asian guys my quite normal and average white son will be an alpha …. Will get plenty of female attention… Will go thru high school feeling like a winner… Anyone else here try this for their son? How did it work out …

    Wencil

    January 6, 2013 at 2:31 PM

  18. “But I agree with Lion that after a certain point IQ is not rewarded. The few careers for which an exceptionally high IQ has been known to be productive are theoretical physics and a few hard science career tracks. They don’t pay much. The Ivys have known this for a long time and selects for well rounded upper class kids.”

    But physicists make tons of money – mostly through consulting and working as quants on wall street. I’m a CS guy, but if I had the chance to work with people with PhDs in hard math / physics, I would do it in a heartbeat.

    Alex

    January 6, 2013 at 3:45 PM

  19. Self-esteem at the age of 16 is a better predictor of future income than IQ……….If you want your children to be successful, you need to focus on their self-esteem and happiness, and not on their test scores and violin-playing abilities.

    Don’t black kids score higher on “self esteem tests” vs. white kids? Where are all the six figure earning blacks in their 20’s and 30’s?

    Wade Nichols

    January 6, 2013 at 5:05 PM

  20. Lion, Yes, other abilities besides IQ matter. So does luck. So does mental health. So do many other factors. But a 140 IQ 16 year old with low self esteem can develop high self esteem. A 100 IQ 16 year old with high self esteem can not develop high IQ and is closed off from the vast majority of high paying occupations. No medicine, big law, investment banking, software development in that kid’s future.

  21. Lion,

    “it was the EDUCATION and not the IQ which caused the better career”

    The problem with this kind of logic is that it neglects what is behind a higher level of education. Obviously, it is IQ essentially, by more than 50% of its variance is due to IQ level. Usually, compensatory education and other educational intervention historically failed to improve “g”. This is the same problem I have seen elsewhere. I group of researchers claimed that, after controlling for SES, the link between IQ and obesity is virtually nil. But that was the fallacy. Controlling for too many variables neglects the very heart of the entire matter : what exactly is behind SES, motivation, and so on. Controlling for variables other than IQ may actually remove the traits and characteristics that cause the differences in outcome. Because IQ drives academic achievement, it is irrelevant to know whether or not IQ directly or indirectly drives obesity (or here, income).

    And this was the mistake that many researchers made. They ignore what they are doing by controlling for these variables.

    猛虎

    January 7, 2013 at 9:51 AM

    • I disagree. It’s EXTREMELY important to know which drives which, because that tells us a lot about how labor markets work, and the relative benefit of attending college (very high).

      Motivation can often come from one’s environment. If all of your friends are going to college, then it seems like the only option available to you even though you find learning really boring because you only have an average IQ.

      Lion of the Blogosphere

      January 7, 2013 at 9:57 AM

    • My point is that IQ causes income possibly through education. As I say, even if the link between IQ and income disappears after controlling for education, IQ is behind the differences in academic achievement. This is what I meant. If in any given population, the individual differences in IQ simply vanish, the differences in income would disappear, because the differences in academic achievement will also disappear. And this is why I think the important “ingredient” here is IQ, not education.

      猛虎

      January 7, 2013 at 10:03 AM

  22. IQ matters enormously. The effect of IQ would be seen more clearly but we already have several variables that encompass IQ.

    (1) Race is strongly tied to IQ, but we control for race.

    (2) Going to college is strongly tied to IQ, but we control for college.

    (3) Height is positively associated with IQ (being linked to childhood nutrition and health and social status) but we control for height.

    (4) Happiness is linked to SES, and SES is linked to IQ, but we control for happiness.

    IQ has a very strong connection with success in life, but much of the connection is already captured in these variables. When you eliminate variation in all these variables, you will have eliminated most IQ difference already.

    If you have a subset of short, undernourished blacks or hispanics who did not go to college and you have a second subset of tall, well-nourished whites with college degrees, you are working with subgroups that have already been preselected for IQ, obviously.

    The fact that IQ continues to substantially matter even at such fine granularity suggests that it really is very important.

    Dan

    January 7, 2013 at 10:54 AM

    • “In fact, there is other evidence out there to suggest that, after educational credentials are accounted for and for those who have at least a college degree, higher IQ is actually correlated with lower income”.

      Correct. STEM fields which require Higher IQ than Finance or Law, pay significantly less than the other 2 disciplines.

      Just Speculating

      January 7, 2013 at 7:10 PM

      • But many of the absolute richest people in America are among the most brilliant STEM majors (Bill Gates, Paul Allen, Steve Balmer, Mark Zuckerberg, Jerry Yang, the google guys…the list goes on and on).

        The Legendary Linda

        January 7, 2013 at 9:37 PM

      • And they went to schools like Harvard and Stanford. They didn’t pick up engineering degrees from State U.

        Lion of the Blogosphere

        January 7, 2013 at 11:20 PM

      • Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard so crediting Harvard for his success is a bit of a stretch. And Balmer and Gates were the top math students at all of Harvard, so even among a group as cognitively and educationally homogenous as Harvard STEM students, IQ might correlate with future wealth. Obviously the correlation will be very small though because of range restriction.

        I think Madonna went to a crappy college where average IQ was probably around 105, but her IQ was 140 and she went on to be super rich. I think you’d find most SELF-MADE super rich people are smarter than most of their college classmates, and the few college graduates who end up in poverty are usually dumber than most of their classmates. But super rich people who largely inherited their wealth (i.e. Donald Trump) are probably dumber than their college classmates because daddy’s wealth may have got them into a better school than they deserved.

        But the notion that smart people are only successful because they get good credentials implies that IQ tests don’t measure real world adaptability and thus are poor tests of intelligence.

        Obviously attending a great school is correlated with future wealth but that doesn’t mean it causes it. It could be that BOTH one’s college prestige AND one’s wealth are caused by BOTH high IQ and high SES background and studies that have looked at those who could have gone to Harvard but didn’t found them to be equally successful as those who did (with the exception of the poor and minorities) at least until pretty recently. Smart people tend to bloom where they’re planted.

        The study of mathematically precocious youth found that people with super high SAT scores made more money than people with super prestigious STEM degrees.

        The Legendary Linda

        January 8, 2013 at 12:37 AM

      • “But many of the absolute richest people in America are among the most brilliant STEM majors (Bill Gates, Paul Allen, Steve Balmer, Mark Zuckerberg, Jerry Yang, the google guys…the list goes on and on)”.

        These individuals are the exception rather than the rule. Just as Steve Jobs was an outlier compared to these guys. He dropped out of a small liberal arts college because it was too expensive for his parents, and his biography show that he was not interested in any formal learning processes. Could his success be attributed from his high IQ or his business acumen?

        Just Speculating

        January 8, 2013 at 10:07 AM

      • Could his success be attributed from his high IQ or his business acumen?

        Your question assumes they’re two different things. IQ is not some specific ability, but rather it’s g, which by DEFINITION influences ALL mental abilities including business acumen, which might require a g loaded ability to spot opportunities and figure out away to exploit them as efficiently as possible and evade all the costly mistakes which eventually overtake non-brilliant people.

        And I actually think you can learn a lot from outliers because looking at a phenomenon at it’s most extreme level provides the clearest view because everything gets magnified. For example you could do a massive study correlating height with basketball skill to see if there’s a causal link, or you could just observe that the average NBA player is about 6’8″ and draw the same conclusion.

        The Legendary Linda

        January 8, 2013 at 12:00 PM

      • “Your question assumes they’re two different things”.

        Yes, look at the some of the ethnic immigrant groups who are able to live an upper middle class lifestyle because they sold the right products or offer the right services, where they are able to put their smart kids in college with a lower ROI.

        Just Speculating

        January 8, 2013 at 1:26 PM

  23. At age 29, I was below poverty with income at $10K. At age 31, I hit bottom with zero income. Only then I started the path to make solid living and eventually wealth.

    IC

    January 8, 2013 at 9:47 AM

  24. […] Lion of the Sphere looks at correlates of higher income at 29. […]


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