Great American inventors?
https://www.google.com/search?q=Great+American+inventors&source=lnms&tbm=isch
What’s wrong with these pictures?
That can’t possibly be the result of natural search algorithms.
Remember what I wrote a few days ago about how big tech companies will use their power to influence us in a liberal direction? It’s already happening.
* * *
Comments suggest, and it makes sense, that this could be the natural search result based on the huge interest by “authoritative sources” in promoting black inventors, while no one cares that much about inventors in general.
This is not the 1970s when there was that Schoolhouse Rock video that praised the most famous inventors, all of whom were white.
Still pretty crazy that Thomas Edison doesn’t show up until the 18th photo.
Lion of the Blogosphere 
This issue came up on iSteve a while back. It seems it’s not so much Google’s fault as it is the result of hundreds of thousands of students doing reports on black inventors.
That said, there has been a concerted propaganda effort to downplay the towering achievements of European men while at the same time emphasizing the misconduct of Europeans.
fortaleza84
February 20, 2018 at 10:47 AM
This.
I recall having to write a school report on George Washington Carver back in the early ’90s. As far as I can tell, he came up with 100 impractical uses for the peanut that were adopted by nobody.
But I was never taught about Edison in school. The Simpsons had an episode about Edison, so it probably offered more factual information about American inventors than the school system did. Kids on TV still write reports about people who accomplished actual things. TV kids also still have hall monitors, which I’ve never encountered in real life and seem to be a throwback from the ’50s or something.
Wency
February 20, 2018 at 1:21 PM
Edison’s a hack. Nikolai Tesla’s the real genius inventory.
Doug
February 21, 2018 at 2:58 AM
The joke of it all is that he didn’t even invent peanut butter.
fortaleza84
February 21, 2018 at 3:23 AM
When they tried to have my second grade son do a report on Carver, I redirected him to Norman Borlaug. The teacher had not heard of him. One of the most accomplished Americans in history, but the lying scum in the education community ignore true humanitarians while lavishing undue praise on the likes of MLK and Carver. To be fair, Carver seems like a good guy. He just isn’t that noteworthy as a scientist. His real passion was educating people especially blacks, which is fine. But they promote him like he was a great scientist which is a stretch.
not too late
February 21, 2018 at 10:17 PM
> That can’t possibly be the result of natural search algorithms.
Why not? Google weights high traffic sites and counts links. There’s a flood of this stuff every year for black history month.
Yandex gives similar results and I don’t see why they’d be in on the conspiracy.
What you’re seeing is just a reflection of how pervasive minority worship is in the popular media.
bobbybobbob
February 20, 2018 at 10:51 AM
Right. There was a time when “American man” yielded mostly black men. Guess what I just tried it and it’s mostly white men now.
gothamette
February 20, 2018 at 4:48 PM
Yandex does not do that. Searching Yandex Images for “american inventors” produces tons of screencaps mocking Google’s idea of top Amertican inventors (sites like Davidduke.com): https://yandex.ru/images/search?text=%22american%20inventors%22
Next are pictures of “great American inventors” (no blacks) and “African American inventors”.
And when one searches for the Russian equivalent (“американские изобретатели”), no pictures of blacks appear and Wright brothers are #5 hit (behind several generic sites that list great American inventors.)
mapman
February 20, 2018 at 7:17 PM
Not sure about the .ru site (I didn’t look), but on the .com TLD I get a handful of screenshots of google results (presumably discussing how weird the google results are) and then results from Yandex very similar to google’s.
https://yandex.com/images/search?text=Great+American+inventors
The “european people art” query does pretty much the same thing. I think in both cases it’s just an emergent phenomenon, reflecting what popular sites do.
bobbybobbob
February 21, 2018 at 1:54 PM
Same when you search in German. Just white guys. No women or minorities. A few more Germans.
not too late
February 21, 2018 at 10:20 PM
Steve Sailer covered this back in September of 2016:
http://www.unz.com/isteve/great-moments-in-google-american-inventors/
MEH 0910
February 20, 2018 at 10:56 AM
Steve Sailer covered this back in September of 2016:
Most mainstream outlets had noticed PC search engine results years earlier.
That Sailer must be fucking psychic to always predict events well after they’ve already happened.
The Undiscovered Jew
February 20, 2018 at 8:57 PM
Fun with the googs:
Great white American inventors
It’s magic.
Faceberg
February 20, 2018 at 11:00 AM
Great Chinese American inventors search result is also magic. I am still anxiously waiting for self driving cars.
My Two Cents
February 20, 2018 at 6:25 PM
It’s probably from kids googling ‘African American inventors’ for a history class. So more of a reflection of public school liberal bias than tech bias.
robpaul12345
February 20, 2018 at 11:16 AM
I went to elementary school in the 1990s and remember George Washington Carver being taught alongside Thomas Edison, all in the same breath and reverence.
Don’t get me wrong: Carver was an impressive person and he made important contributions, but there’s no way his work was on par with Thomas Edison’s.
That’s the public school system for you.
Sid
February 20, 2018 at 2:22 PM
The despots of the future won’t have to burn banned books, they’ll just make them really difficult to find.
Oswald Spengler
February 20, 2018 at 11:45 AM
>> The despots of the future won’t have to burn banned books, they’ll just make them really difficult to find.
Great books are already too difficult to read for the majority of the population, without any governing intervention.
Daniel
February 20, 2018 at 2:24 PM
I will have to call bs on that one. Any decent translation is going to be accessible. English literature from hundreds of years ago is not the same vernacular as contemporary English and isn’t that accessible even if you are smart and good in English.
not too late
February 21, 2018 at 10:27 PM
“The problem in our country isn’t with books being banned, but with people no longer reading. Look at the magazines, the newspapers around us – it’s all junk, all trash, tidbits of news…The average TV ad has 120 images a minute. Everything just falls off your mind…You don’t have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.” – Ray Bradbury, 1993
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19930312&slug=1689996
njguy73
February 20, 2018 at 5:56 PM
I actually spoke to a French national today who cheats on his taxes and lives on subsidize rent in Manhattan. He also gets Medicaid like Yakov, and unlike Yakov, he freelances as a writer for a French publication based out in Paris.
What shocked me the most was that his son attends a college in Montréal. We had a discussion about bookstores in America and how Americans have very low brow interests in much ado about nuthin. He said that Americans hardly peruse books that make them want to travel and see the world. He really summed it all up and I ended my discussion with him right there.
This was a very very strange encounter. Furthermore, he told me thinks Americans are stupid, while he rigs our welfare system.
JS
February 21, 2018 at 10:55 PM
The funny thing is that if you search for Great American computer scientists, you get pictures of Larry Page and Sergey Brin.
Roger
February 20, 2018 at 12:17 PM
The guys actually did author the most significant Computer Science papers and patents of the time. They are all available on line. Read them.
My Two Cents
February 20, 2018 at 5:17 PM
What about all those women “hidden figures” from the 1960-1970s.
Jimi
February 20, 2018 at 7:27 PM
Yeah those fat black women can hide all the Nazi scientists that operation paperclip brought here after WWII.
Those V2 rockets are the prototype for all our NASA flying bombs. Are you willing to be an astronaut? Just strap yourself to a hundred tons of highly explosive liquid oxygen and ride a rocket built by the Lowest Bidder.
Joshua Sinistar (@Joshua06716)
February 26, 2018 at 5:45 AM
Some of those folks must have been immigrants from Wakanda.
Mister Triple 800
February 20, 2018 at 12:26 PM
Google doesn’t seem to be working for me today, but I know what you mean – Sailer has blogged about this before, as other commenters have noted.
I entered “great American invenrors” in DuckDuckGo and came up with this list – Ben Franklin, Thomas Edison, plus:
Alexander Graham Bell
John Moses Browning
Willis Carrier
Samuel Colt
Henry Ford
Robert Fulton
Charles Goodyear
Cyrus McCormick
Samuel F.B. Morse
Dr. Jonas Salk
Eli Whitney
Orville & Wilbur Wright.
Obviously racist.
Black Death
February 20, 2018 at 12:40 PM
I love that line “authoritative sources.” Succinctly illustrates the dangers of hegemony in mass media.
Curle
February 20, 2018 at 12:43 PM
When you are training your search models you take editorial position all the time. There is no ‘one single truth’ of what the search results should be, let alone what the search-related artifacts (query suggestions, drill-downs, detailed answers, etc) should be.
Real people go to work every day to label images as ‘corresponding’ or ‘not corresponding’ to a query, different people write guidelines for these labeling, other people curate which queries to label and which labeled results to train on, etc etc.
In theory, all these people or at least their accumulated work produce some kind of ‘neutral’ result; in reality, a systemic bias on some of these levels can easily have an editorial effect that is impossible to prove.
Does/did google have an ‘american inventors’ query in their training set for ‘detailed answers’? Were the potential results labeled by a human? What were the guidelines? We simply don’t know.
We know something else though: the issue had a media attention. That means that someone probably looked at the results at some point and decided that current results do not need adjusting. Adjustments happen all the time, both band-aid style (case: your model for query suggestions takes ‘spit-roast’ and suggests adult completions) and holistically on a model scale (case: your model takes a query ‘iphone’ and shows (good, popular, linked to) iPhone 7 articles right after iPhone 8 is announced) — so do not think about adjustments as ‘bad’, think of them as regular everyday part of the process.
Tl;Dr — don’t think that google is a giant neutral algorithm that somehow crawls the web and extracts inner truth (like students doing reports on specific inventors) by itself while humans in white coats stand around hands-off and only fix code bugs. Think thousand of small algorithms, each constantly being fine-tuned, prodded, enabled, disabled, discarded, replaced, etc — that in ensemble provide a resemblance of a truth-seeking. Any part of these algorithms can be bent by their controllers in any direction they want.
Sapienti sat.
vrostovtsev
February 20, 2018 at 12:46 PM
This is absolutely correct.
Regardless of whether the issue arose naturally or unnaturally, the issue was also reviewed and a decision was made that the search results you see for that query was acceptable. Whereas if you search for any number of other things, “* people are “, “hillary clinton”, etc. the results are highly editorialized.
Panther of the Blogocube
February 20, 2018 at 9:32 PM
When Google was run out of a garage, this problem did not exist because of two obvious reasons: efficiency of the Page Rank algorithm and lack of manpower. Then they hired 72 more thousand people and god knows how many contractors to pretty much review search results and make them politically correct.
My Two Cents
February 20, 2018 at 11:33 PM
Precisely.
Google is no longer concerned with giving good search results. They have shifted their focus towards giving Good™ search results.
The Communications Decency Act protects sites from lawsuits when their content is not meaningfully overseen by human moderators. But Google now would fall outside of that umbrella for many searches.
Panther of the Blogocube
February 21, 2018 at 5:48 PM
Google used to have a great gaydar.
ScarletNumber
February 22, 2018 at 4:56 PM
I can vouch for the fact that every February my elementary aged kids have to do a report on an african american inventor or scientist. I always tell them to do Benjamin Banneker.
The strange thing is even if you google white or european inventors you still get black inventors. However using the word ‘scientist’ doesn’t have the same results.
toomanyspiders
February 20, 2018 at 1:03 PM
Does Dr. Funkenstein count?
Curle
February 20, 2018 at 9:52 PM
If you really want to be depressed look up the google image search for “white couple”. And no, these things are not happening by accident. No way.
B.T.D.T.
February 20, 2018 at 1:06 PM
That is nothing, do a search for “European people art” and see what you get.
DataExplorer
February 20, 2018 at 1:15 PM
This isn’t nefarious. It’s a result of common text strings. No one writes about “American inventors” if they mean Bell, Ford, etc. Those are just “inventors.” However, lots of people write about “African American inventors.” Your Google search is just catching the second two words in the larger phrase.
Google “famous inventors.”
/computational linguistics background
Seth Largo (@SethLargo)
February 20, 2018 at 1:38 PM
Actually there are lots of writings about American inventors. Wikipedia even has a category with that name. Google employs thousands of engineers to fix stuff like, but apparently they have decided not to fix it.
Roger
February 20, 2018 at 11:00 PM
Yeah, but this is an alt-right site so everything is nefarious, duh!
GondwanaMan
February 21, 2018 at 2:56 AM
Smart right wing types should understand that liberals are sometimes right:
This condescending academic with his devastating remarks owns Tuck the Cuck in regards to White Supremacy.
Why do conservatives not understand that non-white immigration is a capitalistic paradigm for low wages and dirty work?
JS
February 20, 2018 at 2:20 PM
Tuck may be a cuck but that guy doesn’t come off as very smart. Non whites are desired because the economic elite knows that diversity prevents the working and middle classes from using collective action to pursue their interests and because the cultural elite hates and fears white people. There are plenty of white people from central and eastern Europe and Africa that would love to come here and take the jobs that non whites currently do.
You really think that hispanics are the only ones willing to do this kind of work and that white americans are hungering for non whites to import and oppress?
Magnavox
February 20, 2018 at 10:55 PM
Again, “White Supremacy” is the economic and political elites defined by the professor in the video.
“White Supremacy” is always being subverted by a high order of “White Supremacists”, who are on top of the economic and cultural ladder.
The professor is a “White Supremacist”, all White liberals are “White Supremacists” who live in the toniest sections of America and wished to segregate themselves, so are all the Whites on the “Alt Right” and the Cuck camp, who are more elite than any non-white in America.
The higher order “White Supremacist” doesn’t want the lower order “White Supremacist” to join his ranks for reasons of condescension, fear and virtue signaling.
Tucker Carlson is neither thinking along the lines of the professor nor the kind of red pill rant said on this blog.
JS
February 21, 2018 at 9:26 AM
They’re not white supremacists, they also live with elites from other races. They’d rather live next to an elite black then poor whites. They are elite supremacists.
Lion of the Blogosphere
February 21, 2018 at 9:32 AM
Most elites in America are White, which makes them “White Supremacists”.
Lower order “White Supremacists” want to join the higher order “White Supremacists” but are refused entry, for various reasons.
The Alt-Right types (and many White Nationals or Separatists) aren’t interested in a White America of pioneering spirit and self containment. They wished they were like our cultural and economic elites. Their reactionary behavior towards immigration is that of an impediment towards the higher order of “White Supremacy”, whom they despise, but wished to emulate.
JS
February 21, 2018 at 11:35 AM
I hate watching TV while trying to read the internet, but I clicked on the clip and thank JS for posting it. Its an interesting clip. Or at least the professor starts making an important point at about the four minute mark, then starts walking away from it at the six and a half minute mark.
The point overall is that alot of this immigration is “white people” importing cheap labor to essentially work as slaves. As is usually the case, the professor confounds white elites with ordinary non-elite white people, who are in every way harmed by this.
However, they are arguing over the differences between the great wave of immigration from Europe in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century, and the great wave of immigration from non-Europe in the late twentieth and early twenty-first century.
Consider that there was another wave of immigration in the sixteenth and eighteenth century not from Europe. There was immigration from Europe at the same time, but the professor pointed out that the non-white immigration in that same period often outpaced it. This was the importation of by elite whites of black slaves. It was cut off between about 1780 and 1807, with states starting to ban slavery in the 1780s, then the federal ban on the slave trade in 1807, and finally the constitutional ban on slavery in 1865.
It was only after the cut-off of immigration of non-white slave labor that you get the big wave of European immigration. Otherwise the elites would have been happy to just keep importing slaves! The second wave of immigration from European countries happened when the end of slavery pushed wages for everyone higher in the United States.
Incidentally, racism or white supremacism is a blanket term that covers three district phenomenon. Among the elites, there are people who just like to lord it over lots of non-white serfs, and this form of racism that has had the most effect on US history. There are ordinary white people who just don’t like non-whites for aesthetic reasons and want to get away from them, but far from being powerful their interests are directly opposed to the first group, who want lots of non-whites around in subordinate positions. The third type are whites who have to deal on the ground with competition by non-whites for jobs and housing and have to deal with the crime, this isn’t really racist though they will pick up rhetoric and ideas from the other two groups.
Ed
February 21, 2018 at 10:27 AM
The default definition of “White Supremacy” is a term set by the economical and political elites since the inception of this country.
These elites don’t really have a fetish to dominate non-whites, but their main objective to ensure power, money and influence is at the hands of a few Whites who again, set the objectives and direction of Meriprolestan.
JS
February 21, 2018 at 1:46 PM
I got a lot of Ben Carson results lol
Alex
February 20, 2018 at 4:37 PM
Thomas Edison did not invent anything per se. He was a businessmen. Elon Musk did not invent anything useful. Although he does hold five patents: three for search and networking, one for car door ornament, and one for car charge receptacle. I authored more patents and trade secrets than Elon and most of them are implemented and used by all of you every day. Einstein invented very little and nothing useful. All three are not significant inventors. They are American Stakhanovs of different epochs. That guy became a celebrity in 1935 as part of what became known as the Stakhanovite movement – a campaign intended to increase worker productivity and to demonstrate the superiority of the socialist economic system. Similar mythology here.
My Two Cents
February 20, 2018 at 5:09 PM
The point I am making of course is that replacing great white non-inventors by great non-white non-inventors is completely legitimate because neither list contains significant inventors.
My Two Cents
February 20, 2018 at 5:42 PM
You mean Edison didn’t invent the lightbulb?
Lion of the Blogosphere
February 20, 2018 at 9:27 PM
When you visit CN Tower in Torono, you have to watch a short movie about Canadian inventions before they let you on the elevator, at least it used to be that way twenty years ago. It tells you that Canadians invented radio, were the first humans in space, and other interesting stuff. I do not remember about the light bulb, but I am pretty sure they invented it too.
My Two Cents
February 20, 2018 at 10:00 PM
Are you a troll or a crazy person?
Magnavox
February 20, 2018 at 11:11 PM
It is common knowledge that Edison did not invent the lightbulb.
My Two Cents
February 21, 2018 at 2:03 PM
Schoolhouse Rock taught me that Edison invented it.
Lion of the Blogosphere
February 21, 2018 at 6:03 PM
There’s no such thing as a single “inventor” like you’re taught about in grade school. The reason why for any X, every country claims one of their nationals invented X is because there will be a whole lot of people all working on roughly the same thing at roughly the same time.
Even in the very rare case it can be narrowed down to a single organization, was it one of the engineers, or was it their employer? Even individual persons are often tied to multiple countries, like Bell (Scotland/UK, Canada, US) or Sikorsky (Ukraine/Russia, France, US).
snorlaxwp
February 21, 2018 at 9:20 AM
When you invent, even if you work for some organization, you write it in your journal, then go and talk to some other guy (inside the organization if you work for one), make sure he understood your invention and get his signature in your journal. Then, for different political and non-political reasons few names are added and few patent applications of different authors could be merged into one. Lawyers get involved at some point, but it is not very necessary. There is always a single inventor. Probability of something being invented in two different heads at the same moment is negligibly low.
My Two Cents
February 21, 2018 at 2:09 PM
Now dealmaster Trump is showing his incredible deal making prowess again, by unilaterally giving Democrats a key gun control measure in exchange for absolutely nothing:
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/20/trump-signs-a-memo-telling-attorney-general-sessions-to-ban-devices-that-turn-weapons-into-machine-guns.html
Magnavox
February 20, 2018 at 5:58 PM
Bump stocks are stupid, there’s no reason why they need to be sold.
Lion of the Blogosphere
February 20, 2018 at 9:28 PM
I’m all for more gun control but he’s an idiot for just giving it away like this.
Magnavox
February 20, 2018 at 10:38 PM
I genuinely bought his deal maker schtick. I should have listened to the guy that ghost wrote that entire book.
Magnavox
February 20, 2018 at 10:56 PM
Speaking as an NRA Life member, gun nut, and a fan of machine guns, if bump stocks were remotely practical or useful, I would have one already. At best they’re just novelties, toys, a means to waste expensive ammo. I’m not sure you could barter a bump stock ban for anything significant, and perhaps they’re most useful as a virtue signalling give-away. Trump can say “see, I feel your pain, and I banned evil bump stocks.”
Kosher Kowboy
February 21, 2018 at 1:28 PM
Replacing a few machined parts can easily change a semi-automatic weapon to a fully automatic one. Most fully automatic weapons are designed for the military, then converted to legal civilian versions like M16 to AR15.
cesqy
February 21, 2018 at 2:20 PM
cesqy: But I never read about anyone actually making those conversions. The last big case involving illegal automatic conversions that I know of was the north hollywood shootout
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout
Kosher Kowboy: The Las Vegas shooter supposedly used a bump stock and was able to fire off many more rounds because of it.
Magnavox
February 21, 2018 at 7:17 PM
Magnavox: Cnc and 3d programs are examples of the technology…after all it is illegal to possess the hardware , even if you’re a gun nut. Checkout silencers and bullet-proof vests/backpacks online.
cesqy
February 22, 2018 at 12:45 AM
Magnavox:
The bump stock works by using the recoil momentum to bounce the stock and actuate the trigger against the trigger finger in rapid fashion. But the weapon has to be held somewhat loosely for that to happen. Grip it tightly and it’s not going to work. But holding the weapon loosely isn’t conducive to accurate, aimed fire. Conventional full auto is already fairly inaccurate just because no matter how stably you’re holding the weapon it’s going to bounce around a bit, but faux full auto via the bump stock is especially inaccurate. The vast majority of the bullets sprayed by the Vegas shooter hit nobody. So perhaps the bump stock saved lives.
Kosher Kowboy
February 22, 2018 at 12:40 PM
Off topic, but very interesting. OECD Obesity Report came out: http://www.oecd.org/health/obesity-update.htm The results seem to agree with my theory that societies open to miscegenation suffer from obesity due to mixing of genes that effectively produces people with prehistoric metabolism (unnecessary now accumulation of fat). Note that Japan is the most closed and the US is the most open to immigration and mixing. Also note that there seem to be no obvious correlation to GDP, at least not for these developed countries. Obesity crisis will get much worse here in the US as more mixing occurs. Much worse than in Latin America now. 80+% will be obese in few generations.
My Two Cents
February 20, 2018 at 6:59 PM
Prolish White folks are more likely to be overweight.
France has more interracial couples than all of NYC, than all of Australia, than all of the UK.
Spain is more obese than France, and Spaniards are not known for their race mixing in their own soil.
Anglo Nations have lower rates of miscegenation than France and Portugal.
From that OECD report, Brazil which is very mixed, and it’s obesity rate is lower than that of the Anglo Prole Sphere.
JS
February 20, 2018 at 11:28 PM
Edison and Bell occasionally show up but it’s really difficult to make Google show a picture of Tesla from generic searches for inventors.
mapman
February 20, 2018 at 7:25 PM
Something about this is…sad….
GondwanaMan
February 20, 2018 at 7:31 PM
#3 story at the nyt is about Google being too powerful https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/20/magazine/the-case-against-google.html
Dsgntd_plyr
February 20, 2018 at 9:19 PM
Are there any really important guido inventors? (…..why do I get the feeling that JS will respond by saying “No, the only thing guidos ever invented was pizza?”)
maryk
February 20, 2018 at 11:21 PM
Guido of Arezzo invented modern music notation.
Lion of the Blogosphere
February 21, 2018 at 8:03 AM
There was Marconi, who invented wireless radio. Oh, wait – his mother was Scots-Irish, a scion of the Jameson whiskey family.
Mister Triple 800
February 21, 2018 at 11:03 AM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Meucci
there’s a museum dedicated to him on SI.
Recently a tourist from italy was shot in gang related crossfire while wandering st. george looking for the museum.
http://www.silive.com/northshore/index.ssf/2017/08/italian_tourist_shot_on_jersey.html
toomanyspiders
February 21, 2018 at 2:06 PM
you’re joking, right?
not too late
February 21, 2018 at 10:52 PM
Some of this might be related to human invention, such as reddit LARP’ers, including those in The_Donald sub. Not a day goes by on Reddit where there is a post with a picture of something stupid with the title “upvote this picture so that it shows up on Google image search for XXXXX”. Just search Google images for “side of beef”. A picture of Hillary Clinton from her fall at the 911 memorial is the third result thanks to The_Donald upvoting it (the event was referred to as “Hillary Clinton being chucked into a van like a side of beef”).
trashman1
February 20, 2018 at 11:47 PM
I’ll be interested to see how this plays in other countries. Some of this may be an artifact of it also simply adding well-searched inventors, so Edison and Carver show up as a great Asian inventor.
Still, for comparison, here is ‘great AFRICAN inventors’ https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=noGNWtzkL8resAXnm6CIBA&q=Great+African+inventors&oq=Great+African+inventors&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i24k1.21873.27238.0.28886.13.13.0.0.0.0.127.1089.11j2.13.0….0…1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.9.751…0i13k1.0.Y7tjUP0i_BA
and ‘great
WHITE inventors’; https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=vYGNWpOuCMWEtQWh3pegAg&q=Great+white+inventors&oq=Great+white+inventors&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0.113924.115022.0.115838.5.5.0.0.0.0.142.433.4j1.5.0….0…1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.3.226…0i13k1.0.yg5Q0LfSr4A
Robert
February 21, 2018 at 9:36 AM
Someone should try googling through tor. Usually you get a european IP.
toomanyspiders
February 21, 2018 at 1:55 PM
Lion,
I hate to hijack the thread, but can you do a post on law schools? You had some pretty interesting threads on the topic 10 years ago… not sure whether the information is dated or not.
I’m sitting on acceptances to Top 50 (not T14) schools with my parents willing to help cover whatever is not covered by scholarship. In other words, there will be no debt. That being said, it sounds like this puts me out of the running for BIGLAW jobs, although, anecdotally, I know some people that went to my undergrad (top undergrad), went to schools that were “good, not great”, and ended up with 160k jobs afterwards. I got a 166 on the LSAT, which is so so, but I know I could do better with more studying… which would delay the process another year. I would be 30 when I start (previous work experience in sales).
There’s just so much misinformation out there that a discussion on this would be quite helpful.
WannabeLawyer
February 21, 2018 at 1:43 PM
If your parents are going to give you a total free ride: tuition plus living expenses, then it’s a good deal compared to not getting anything from your parents.
You won’t get a BIGLAW job unless you graduate in the top 10% of the class, and that’s a lot harder than it sounds.
You would be better using your parents money to get an MBA.
Lion of the Blogosphere
February 21, 2018 at 6:01 PM
What is your opinion on:
1) Waiting a year, getting a better LSAT, re-applying, but matriculating at a later age (30). One year difference.
2) Transferring law schools?
3) Why MBA? It’s just as competitive, the overall experience seems to be more about networking and partying than academic study, and I don’t really know if I want to do IBD or consulting. A CBS MBA was doing previous job next to me (tech sales)– I’m not sure what he learned.
WannabeLawyer
February 21, 2018 at 9:35 PM
An MBA doesn’t hurt your chances of getting any job. Can’t say the same for a JD.
Lion of the Blogosphere
February 21, 2018 at 10:14 PM
*A CBS alum was doing the same job as me… sales at a startup.
WannabeLawyer
February 21, 2018 at 9:36 PM
MBA? That may be dated advice.
You say the school is top 50? A good choice might be shooting for the civil division of a large suburban county PA office. You won’t make $160k for several years but you will have regular hours and a great retirement. And the work can be interesting.
Or consider the state’s attorney. You’ll get good experience.
Curle
February 21, 2018 at 10:07 PM
I got a 166 on the LSAT, which is so so, but I know I could do better with more studying…
Go for an MBA.
A second chance at the LSAT won’t do you much good since schools always have access to how many times you took any standardized test (whether LSAT, SAT, or whatever) and what your scores were each time.
A 166 LSAT means you would struggle to get into the top 10% of your class. You would probably fall just short at around 11%-20% of the class (which won’t cut it with BIG Law) unless you study a very substantial amount.
And even if you put in that effort and get into the top 10% you have a decent chance of getting no high paying job at all.
An MBA is more sensible because the odds are much higher you would get a job for an upper middle class salary.
The Undiscovered Jew
February 21, 2018 at 7:44 PM
“A second chance at the LSAT won’t do you much good since schools always have access to how many times you took any standardized test (whether LSAT, SAT, or whatever) and what your scores were each time.”
Schools have access to all scores, but they’re only legally obligated to report the highest score to the LSAC.
WannabeLawyer
February 21, 2018 at 11:12 PM
Schools have access to all scores, but they’re only legally obligated to report the highest score to the LSAC.
They still have access to the lower ones. And even if you score higher the admissions office won’t view a better second attempt as positively as someone who got the same score on the first try.
The Undiscovered Jew
February 22, 2018 at 6:25 PM
Take that money and purchase a townhouse in Minneapolis. Work for any of many companies headquartered there (preferably at a headquarter): US Bancorp, General Mills, Hormel Foods, Honeywell, 3M, Target, Best Buy, UnitedHealth Group (I highly recommend this one – it is Fortune 6, but will be Fortune 2 in 2-3 years), Cargill, Supervalu, Xcel Energy etc. You will not need any MBA or Law degree assuming you have BA degree in something marginally useful. No mortgage. The best health care in the US, the best public schools. You can travel the world in your spare time to spend money you make.
My Two Cents
February 21, 2018 at 9:23 PM
Do you know how cold it gets in Minneapolis in the winter????
Lion of the Blogosphere
February 21, 2018 at 10:13 PM
About the same as in your freezer. Not a big problem. I spent few good years there.
My Two Cents
February 21, 2018 at 10:59 PM
So, I’m about to write an essay here, but I’m doing so in the hopes that it attracts some thoughtful responses.
So, quick background: Grew up in a prole hometown, went to a top 10 undergrad, worked in finance right out of college but flamed out. Wandered the earth for a bit, and then eventually settled into a prole profession — sales. Did alright for a bit, but hated dealing with the people, and miss being part of a professional environment. I miss being around people that are “in the know”. I want my life back.
Basically, it seems I have three options:
1) Wait, retake, (probably) get a 170+, get into a T14/T20 school, and then have a reasonable shot at BigLaw. My practice score band ranged from 165-175, with the mean score being 169, so with a YEAR of focused practice (read: taking every single test, analyzing every single problem on every single test), I think I can get 4-5 more questions on the right. Also, the 166 was scored with 4 questions left unanswered (I ran out of time). But, I’ll be an old man matriculating at law school at age 30, and being 33 at graduation. But—and this is a big but—I’ll work with and deal with people of the same educational background, intelligence, and social class, and not have to worry about money.
2) Just attend whatever school I can get into. The school will likely be T25-T50. This basically means picking a region to live in NOW and accepting the fact that I’ll have to be the “old fashioned type of lawyer”—that is, an immigration/real estate/personal injury etc. lawyer that ultimately has to start their own firm to make money. The upper middle class and anything global/elite is off limits at this point as I’ll primarily be working with and competing against other middle class (or lower) provincial Americans. I’ll need to re-assimilate to “mainstream” American culture—mass media, professional sports, Netflix—just to build rapport with the people in the cultural milieu that I will be forced to inhabit. I don’t know whether I would have kids or not—I probably won’t be able to afford private school, and I definitely won’t have the connections where I can just finagle them into a top college.
3) Disregard all of the above, pack my bags, and settle somewhere abroad. I speak multiple languages, and wouldn’t have a difficult time adjusting socially, but I’d have to be very entrepreneurial to actually make money. As in, remote-based Skype tutoring, or essay ghostwriting for Chinese princelings, or running some sort of English language tutoring business. The benefits to this are no political correctness, ultimate freedom—but financial uncertainty, and knowing that I probably won’t really be able to return to the United States. I also won’t be able to monetize my college network. Basically, I’m saying goodbye to America forever.
Decisions Decisions…
WannabeLawyer
February 21, 2018 at 11:29 PM
So, quick background: Grew up in a prole hometown, went to a top 10 undergrad, worked in finance right out of college but flamed out. Wandered the earth for a bit, and then eventually settled into a prole profession — sales.
You are better off remaining in business and pursuing an MBA (or investing the money your parents are willing to pay into index funds).
Most corporate office jobs aren’t nearly as high stress as top finance work. In fact, it’s mostly pointless meetings, water cooler chit-chat, and doodling up powerpoint slides before checking out at 5 pm.
You won’t be paid as well or be as connected as you were in finance but you will have more options about where to live and who to socialize with than if you gamble on a middling legal career.
The Undiscovered Jew
February 22, 2018 at 6:30 PM
If you can get into the best public law school in the state that you plan on practicing in and you will graduate without debt, you should go.
For example, Rutgers Law School in Newark will set someone up nicely who wants to practice in New Jersey, but not otherwise, unless you are Elizabeth Warren.
Keep in mind you are also giving up 3 years of income, so it isn’t free, even if scholarships and your parents are paying for it. Also, you are too old to get on a good career track.
ScarletNumber
February 22, 2018 at 5:36 PM
http://www.xoxohth.com
let’s get you a moniker
ipc
February 23, 2018 at 3:35 AM
Here is the most up to date unbiased look at this issue from these Spaniards/Portuguese/Brazilian-Hispanic/ Portuguese speaking folks like you mentioned above (from their Scientific American-like web site): http://www.dicyt.com/news/mixed-race-people-are-more-likely-to-develop-metabolic-syndrome : “Mixed race people are more likely to develop metabolic syndrome. A recent study suggests that mixed race people are genetically prone to develop metabolic syndrome.” Just to clarify, Metabolic syndrome is a cluster of conditions, one of them is excess body fat around the waist. They are not building super-empire du jour, so they do not have to be nice.
My Two Cents
February 21, 2018 at 2:48 PM
Oops, it was meant as a response to JS.
My Two Cents
February 21, 2018 at 2:49 PM
In French press, they say that Sweden is considering the suppression of cash as many restaurants and bars and markets don’t accept it any more . So you were a prophet because there is an inverse link between honesty and cash. German are the biggest cash users in Europe. Sweden is also a spying government where the individual doesn’t count much ….
Bruno
February 21, 2018 at 5:24 PM
I tried image googling ‘great american inventors’ in both german and spanish.
German yields all white guys, including a very dorky picture of bill gates.
Spanish yields completely different results but mostly white. Steve jobs and the zuck are featured.
toomanyspiders
February 21, 2018 at 5:45 PM
in case you’re curious
http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=450.70420113661856&bih=769.2018366064956&ei=5_SNWsXMMIy3ggfZ8aHQCA&q=große+amerikanische+Erfinder&oq=große+amerikanische+Erfinder&gs_l=img.12…1870.1870.0.3223.1.1.0.0.0.0.73.73.1.1.0….0…1ac.2.64.img..0.0.0….0.igBkeMF2aCY
http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=450.70420113661856&bih=769.2018366064956&ei=mvWNWpvYJuihggeCg6zwBg&q=grandes+inventores+americanos&oq=grandes+inventores+americanos&gs_l=img.12…1847.1847.0.2970.1.1.0.0.0.0.76.76.1.1.0….0…1ac.2.64.img..0.0.0….0.T9GgnnKzchY
toomanyspiders
February 21, 2018 at 5:58 PM
This link is bogus. If you search just “Great American Inventors” result is completely different. If you use incognito window results of the search might be completely different again.
esharapov
February 21, 2018 at 11:11 PM
Thomas Edison was so famous that the township that includes Menlo Park renamed itself Edison.
ScarletNumber
February 22, 2018 at 5:38 PM