Lion of the Blogosphere

Final summary of Elliot Rodger’s autobiography

I label his document as an autobiography, not a memoir and not a “manifesto” as people keep wrongly calling it. The two-page epilogue, where he describes the ideal society without women (which of course seems extremely weird to most people) might be described as a very brief manifesto, but the first 135 pages are purely an autobiography. The intent is to explain how his life led him to be the way he turned out.

The key factor in understanding Elliot’s personality is that he was very high on the “neuroticism” scale. People, including “professional” psychiatrists who should have known better, seem to think that he had all sorts of other mental “illnesses” such as Asperger’s Syndrome, or later in his life schizophrenia. Elliot knew that he didn’t have schizophrenia, because he was quite introspective about why he was messed up, and that’s why he refused to take the Risperidone that was prescribed for him. I think that Elliot really wanted help, but he had too much social anxiety to ask for it properly, or maybe the people who were supposed to be helping him were just too clueless.

The Wikipedia article on Neuroticism describes it thusly:

Neuroticism is a fundamental personality trait in the study of psychology characterized by anxiety, moodiness, worry, envy, and jealousy. Individuals who score high on neuroticism are more likely than the average to experience such feelings as anxiety, anger, envy, guilt, and depressed mood. They respond more poorly to stressors, are more likely to interpret ordinary situations as threatening, and minor frustrations as hopelessly difficult. They are often self-conscious and shy, and they may have trouble controlling urges and delaying gratification. Neuroticism is a risk factor for the “internalizing” mental disorders such as phobia, depression, panic disorder, and other anxiety disorders, all of which are traditionally called neuroses.

Neuroticism is not a very trendy psychological diagnosis. Every kid is being diagnosed with Asperger’s Syndrome or Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), but kids who simply have very high Neuroticism are ignored and don’t get the help that they need. Yet anyone who bothers to read all of Elliot’s autobiography will see that the Wikipedia explanation of high Neuroticism perfectly matches what Elliot experienced.

Elliot’s second strike against him is that he was small and physically weak. Boys who have high neuroticism and are also small and physically weak wind up having bad interactions with their peers that lead to social anxiety and bullying, and that’s exactly what happened with Elliot as well.

Strangely, he didn’t talk about being bullied in elementary school. I attribute that to the fact that he attended an elementary school where all of the children came from affluent families and thus they were much better behaved than children at regular working-class schools. Elliot had friends in elementary school, but at the same time his shyness prevented him from being as popular as he wanted to be, and he was never good at making friends on his own without his mother setting “playdates” for him.

Pinecrest Middle School was worse for him than elementary school because his shyness prevented him from making friends at the new school, and his friends from elementary school apparently went to other middle schools.

For the first few days, I withdrew into a defensive shell and didn’t really talk to anyone. I did observe, however. I observed how everyone acted, who the “cool kids” were, what they were like… and it was all so intimidating. The social challenges that I faced in Fifth Grade were intensified tenfold.

Middle school was also when he became aware of girls, but he was too shy to talk to them. Middle school is also when he became aware that girls like certain other boys a lot more than they liked him.

I also observed the girls. I was still very short for my age, and most of the girls were taller than me. I hadn’t reached puberty yet, but I was starting to admire female prettiness. There was one group of pretty, popular girls, and they all seemed to like hanging out with that boy Robert Morgan. I didn’t yet desire girls sexually, but I still felt envy towards Robert for being able to attract the attention of all the popular girls. What was so special about Robert Morgan? I constantly asked myself.

A particularly bad social experience for Elliot happened at summer camp between the 6th and 7th grades.

At this camp, an incident happened that would scar me for life. The first time that I was treated badly by a girl occurred at this camp. I was innocently playing with the friends I made, and they were tickling me, something people always did because I was very ticklish. I accidently bumped into a pretty girl the same age as me, and she got very angry. She cursed at me and pushed me, embarrassing me in front of my friends. I didn’t know who this girl was… She was only at Pinecrest for summer camp… But she was very pretty, and she was taller than me. I immediately froze up and went into a state of shock. One of my friends asked me if I was ok, and I didn’t answer. I remained very quiet for the rest of the day.

I couldn’t believe what had happened. Cruel treatment from women is ten times worse than from men. It made me feel like an insignificant, unworthy little mouse. I felt so small and vulnerable. I couldn’t believe that this girl was so horrible to me, and I thought that it was because she viewed me as a loser. That was the first experience of female cruelty I endured, and it traumatized me to no end. It made me even more nervous around girls, and I would be extremely weary and cautious of them from that point on.

He describes another bad experience with girls in the 8th grade:

I became known as the “weird kid” at Pinecrest, and people started to make fun of me, but I didn’t care. I had my online games to distract me from the harsh realities of life that I was too scared to face. The only time I did care was when a group of popular Seventh Grade girls started teasing me, which hurt a lot. One of these girls was Monette Moio, a pretty blonde girl who was Ashton’s younger sister. She must have thought I was an ultimate loser. I hated her so much, and I will never forget her. I started to hate all girls because of this. I saw them as mean, cruel, and heartless creatures that took pleasure from my suffering.

Ashton Moio is a somewhat successful young actor. His sister Monette has not had as successful an acting career, but a search of Google shows that she is indeed a very pretty blonde girl. She seems to have taken down her twitter feed, perhaps in shame that her cruel treatment of Elliot in the 8th grade contributed to Elliot becoming a mass murderer.

For 9th grade, he attended a boys Caholic high school, Crespi. He had asked his parents to send him there because of his bad experiences with and fear of girls, but this didn’t turn out to be a very good school for him.

My life at Crespi got even worse. Alfred and Brice apparently told everyone how weird I was at Pinecrest, and people in my own grade started to tease me. They found out that I didn’t like being called a skateboarder, and it was true. Because I failed to become good at skateboarding, I developed a hatred for the sport, and whenever someone called me a skateboarder, it reminded me of my failure and I got very angry. The whole school started calling me it just to anger me, along with other insulting names. They teased me because I was scared of girls, calling me names like “faggot”. People also liked to steal my belongings and run away in an attempt to get me to chase after them. And I did chase after them in a furious rage, but I was so little and weak that they thought it was comical. I hated everyone at that school so much.

It got to a point where I had to wait in a quiet corner for the hallways to clear before I could walk to class. I also took long routes around the school to avoid bullies. My parents began to consider not letting me continue there after Ninth Grade.

After the 9th grade, his parents sent him to a public high school, Taft. This was much worse for Elliot than Crespi.

The first week of Taft was living hell. I was bullied several times, even though I didn’t know anyone there. After being so used to wearing a polo shirt with khaki pants as a school uniform at private schools, I continued to dress like that even after leaving Crespi. I didn’t give any thought to how nerdy I looked. I was too withdrawn, like a turtle tucked into his shell. I was still in the process of going through puberty at the time, so I still looked and sounded like a ten-year-old. Such a persona attracted zero attention from girls, of course, but it did attract bullies like moths to a flame.

I was completely and utterly alone. No one knew me or extended a hand to help me. I was an innocent, scared little boy trapped in a jungle full of malicious predators, and I was shown no mercy. Some boys randomly pushed me against the lockers as they walked past me in the hall. One boy who was tall and had blonde hair called me a “loser”, right in front of his girlfriends. Yes, he had girls with him. Pretty girls. And they didn’t seem to mind that he was such an evil bastard. In fact, I bet they liked him for it. This is how girls are, and I was starting to realize it. This was what truly opened my eyes to how brutal the world is. The most meanest and depraved of men come out on top, and women flock to these men. Their evil acts are rewarded by women; while the good, decent men are laughed at. It is sick, twisted, and wrong in every way. I hated the girls even more than the bullies because of this. The sheer cruelty of the world around me was so intense that I will never recover from the mental scars. Any experience I ever had before never traumatized me as much as this.

I couldn’t do it anymore. On the morning before the second week of Taft started, I broke down and cried in front of my mother, begging her not to make me go to that horrible place. I was so scared that I felt physically sick. I continued crying in the car on the way there, and my mother gave in. Instead of taking me to school, we went to the café at Gelson’s in Calabasas where we had a big talk. I tried to explain how much I was suffering there. She just could not take me to school after that. When we were finished with Gelsons’s, she drove me to my father’s house and told him about what happened. They agreed to take me out of Taft.

I didn’t go to school for a month while my parents decided what to do with me. I took advantage of the time to rest and recover at home, playing my online games. The pain and suffering I had to endure at Taft was all over, but the scars would remain. I tried to forget about it as much as I could. I took a deep breath and relaxed.

After his bad week at Taft, his parents sent him to “Independence Continuation High School.” This appears to be a public high school for children who for some reason or other can’t handle regular high school. Apparently the children who went there was so weird or had so many other issues that Elliot no longer stood out as a target for bullies, because he didn’t write about any more bullying. But neither did he have any friends there at all, and the schoolwork was not academically challenging, so he spent most of his time playing World of Warcraft.

Elliot doesn’t give much of an explanation of why his parents made this schooling decision. My guess is that they may have received a psychiatric diagnosis that Elliot had Asperger’s Syndrome (which I do not agree with at all), and they sort of gave up on him as being academic material. His father had also suffered heavy economic losses from his investment in the documentary movie Oh My God so perhaps he cheapened out and sent him to free public high school rather than find a private school that might have been a better fit for him. Nevertheless, his parents seem to have absolutely no aspirations at all for Elliot to have any sort of academic success, because they allow him to attend the continuation school, and then take just a single class at a community college. It’s not clear to me if this is because they just don’t care about education, or because they view Elliot has having Asperger’s Syndrome and therefore is not capable of succeeding academically. Elliot himself views school strictly as a social (or anti-social) experience and not as a place where one learns things and prepares for a career.

I haven’t written much about Elliot’s parents yet. Elliot’s mother, Li Chin, is Malaysian Chinese, and his father, Peter Rodger, is Scottish. They moved to the United States from England when he was five, and two years later they got divorced.

Peter soon remarried to Soumaya Akaaboune, an actress from a wealthy Moroccan family. The way that Elliot described her, she appeared to view Elliot as annoying baggage from Peter’s first marriage that she didn’t want to have around. In fact, the joint custody arrangement that Peter and Li had doesn’t make any sense to me. Elliot spent half his time at his father’s house, but his father was away most of the time because of his career in movies, so a great deal of time at his father’s house was spent just with Soumaya there, and Soumaya didn’t like him very much. It seems to me that he would have been much better off with his mother. Was the joint custody arrangement a spiteful divorce settlement used as leverage by Peter to avoid paying higher alimony to his ex-wife, or was it that despite Elliot’s fondness for his mother, his mother didn’t actually want him around full-time and was glad that she only had to care for him every other week?

In the later part of Elliot’s life, he’s a much less sympathetic protagonist. In response to his severe social anxiety, he develops an intense hatred for girls, especially the pretty blonde girls he is most obsessed with, and the socially successful men who get to have sex with them. He keeps dropping out of his community college classes, because every class that he’s in there’s at least one couple in which the guy is a good-looking jock type and the girl is a hot blonde, and this enrages him too much and he can’t stand attending the class because of that. He also begins plotting for his “Day of Retribution” at this time of his life. As part of the retribution he planned to kill his stepmother, Soumaya and his little half-brother Jazz. Reading about his desire to kill his little brother was sad because Jazz didn’t do anything wrong besides be born better looking, more athletic, and with less neuroticism than Elliott.

I had an argument with Soumaya while I was visiting father’s house. It started when she began to boast that my brother Jazz was recently signed by an agent to act in T.V. commercials. She said that by the time he is my age, he will be a successful actor. I talked about how Jazz was already so socially savvy for his age, and how I’ve always envied him for it. She told me he will never have any problems with girls, and will lose his virginity while he’s young. I had to sit there and listen to the bitch tell me that my little brother will grow up enjoying the life I’ve always craved for, but missed out on. It is very unfair how some boys are able to live such pleasurable lives while I never had any taste of it, and now it has been confirmed to me that my little brother will become one of them. He will become a popular kid who gets all the girls. Girls will love him. He will become one of my enemies.

Of the entire autobiography, the part about how he planned to kill his little brother was the most disturbing. Luckily, he wasn’t as successful in his “Day of Retribution” as he had planned in the autobiography.

And that’s the summary of Elliot’s life. A consistent theme in the comment thread is that Elliot must have been gay, but the people who say that are just too lazy to read the autobiography and would rather jump to conclusions that a guy who is scrawny and doesn’t have a girlfriend most be gay. In fact, it’s exactly those kind of societal attitudes that I suspect contributed to Elliot’s self-loathing and low self-esteem which led to his unfortunate Day of Retribution. (Also, living in Hell’s Kitchen, the gayest neighborhood in Manhattan, I see gay men every time I leave my apartment, and none of them remind me of Elliot in any way.)

Elliot describes in many places his sexual attraction for girls, although especially (perhaps only) for blonde girls. He describes masturbating while thinking about them, and his erections upon seeing beautiful girls with blonde hair, so no, he’s not gay. The definition of gay is that one is sexually attracted to people of the same sex, while Elliot is clearly sexually attracted to girls, the opposite sex. The reason he was unable to obtain a girlfriend is because he suffered from severe shyness and social anxiety, so he was afraid to talk to them, and his social anxiety also caused him to lack any male friends as well, and without a social network he didn’t have the opportunity to meet any girls. He also probably came off as sort of weird by the time he was college-aged. There was a vicious circle at work in which his social anxiety caused him to have no friends which means he didn’t develop social skills in high school which means he came off as weird which then made it even harder from him to make friends and served to increase his social anxiety.

It’s my feeling, after reading the autobiography, that Elliot’s life didn’t have to turn out the way it did. I don’t see any evidence that he had Asperger’s Syndrome or schizophrenia or other severe mental illness. If his parents had been more attentive when he was younger, I think they could have been able to help coax him out of shyness, and get him proper psychiatric treatment or therapy for his anxiety and neuroticism.

Written by Lion of the Blogosphere

May 26, 2014 at 8:42 am

204 Responses

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  1. Good posts but your beta male rage phrase should be omrga male rage. To not be able to land any woman in southern California would make him bottom of the totem pole like these other enraged and sex starved losers.

    sobl

    May 26, 2014 at 8:47 am

    • He could have found an Asian woman who was probably more compatible with his aggressive-passive personality. A lot beta White men in Southern California have Asian girlfriends/wives.

      JS

      May 26, 2014 at 9:47 am

      • In addition to his mental health issues, and maybe this is a part of them, he set his standards too high.

        Shawn

        May 26, 2014 at 10:27 am

      • Being “self-conscious” is one of the dictionary definitions of high neuroticism, and he came from a Hollywood family that probably made him believe that looking good was extremely important and made him feel self-conscious that he would be perceived as a loser if he settled for an ugly or even average-looking girl. Besides, he seemed to be too afraid to talk to any girls at all.

        So logically speaking, yes absolutely, he would have been better off hanging with both a male and female crowd that was less alpha, but I don’t think he got this advice or direction from his family.

      • American born Asian women wouldn’t put up with someone like him.

        Dave Pinsen

        May 26, 2014 at 10:44 am

      • So logically speaking, yes absolutely, he would have been better off hanging with both a male and female crowd that was less alpha, but I don’t think he got this advice or direction from his family

        Correct, I know a few White guy friends who are medical students out in San Diego who are into Asians, and not just Asian women, but hanging out with Asians in general. They of course are less alpha in character and more beta-ish to feel more comfortable around them, than let’s say the NYC – Madison Avenue and Wall St crowd, where everybody has domineering personalities, who would never give these guys the time of the day.

        JS

        May 26, 2014 at 11:22 am

      • And given that Elliot was half-Asian himself, he definitely could have hung with an Asian crowd, but growing up with beautiful white Hollywood types and their extroverted personalities caused him to dislike the Asian part of his heritage.

  2. How much fault should be assigned to the bullies?

    Vic

    May 26, 2014 at 9:14 am

  3. Great write up. Thanks for summarizing it, so we can have some intelligent thoughts on this news.

    Taylor

    May 26, 2014 at 9:18 am

    • I agree. Lion has done an excellent job of summarizing the autobiography and I think he is right on his amateur diagnosis of Neuroticism.

      Mike Street Station

      May 27, 2014 at 6:41 pm

  4. Technically Neuroticism is one of the five dimensions of personality with openness, extroversion, agreeableness, and conscientiousness.

    Having high levels of it particularly damaging in American society which requires you to act happy all the time, but other cultures with a more negative attitude toward life like England and France seem more cool with it.

    I suspect it’s probably one of these things that’s useful to society but damaging to the individual; you can imagine how crazy things would get if nobody worried about anything. Additionally, high-neuroticism groups like Jews and Asians seem to do pretty well for themselves.

    SFG

    May 26, 2014 at 9:22 am

    • “you can imagine how crazy things would get if nobody worried about anything.” ————-

      Like the government workforce?

      Curle

      May 26, 2014 at 11:29 am

  5. You need to consider the possibility that Rodger is lying or self-deceived when he talks about sexual attraction to girls. When people write about themselves, they usually try to spin things to put themselves in a better light. And this individual seems to be full of egotism and narcissism which makes him that much less trustworthy in his self-description.

    As someone pointed out in the last discussion thread, it’s rather odd that this extremely detailed autobiography makes no mention at all of homosexuality. When he was bullied, it must have happened that someone called him a faggot since it would have been a natural slur to throw out. And it must have occurred to him that maybe girls were not interested in him because they perceived him as being gay. And yet there is no mention at all of such things.

    Is there any mention of a girl accidentally rubbing against him and him getting excited as a result? Or of him catching a glimpse up a girl’s skirt, seeing her panties, and getting excited as a result? These are very common experiences for adolescent heterosexual males and it would be odd if they were missing from his life.

    sabril

    May 26, 2014 at 9:41 am

    • You obviously didn’t bother to read the quote in my blog post. “They teased me because I was scared of girls, calling me names like “faggot”.”

      And if you delve deeper into the autobiography, yes, there is talk about porn he saw and erections he got upon viewing girls.

      • The “gay” talk proves again most people never bother investigating facts.

        Thomas

        May 26, 2014 at 10:24 am

      • “You obviously didn’t bother to read the quote in my blog post. “They teased me because I was scared of girls, calling me names like “faggot”.””

        That’s right, I did not read carefully. I trusted another poster’s claim that she had searched his autobiography and not found the word. My apologies.

        sabril

        May 26, 2014 at 10:26 am

      • OK, somehow *one* mention of the word fag(got) slipped through my first search. But that was in context of him describing various insults by others — and notice that he never denies it.

        I did a second search, and still find not one mention of the words gay, straight, homo, hetero, orientation, etc. I stand by my earlier position that it’s odd that the entire … biography .. contains no discussion at all of gayness, at least to discuss whether and why he is misunderstood as thus.

        Take Lion, for contrast. Lion has described himself over the years as a somewhat nerdy, somewhat introverted man who likes women. Every now and then, Lion brings up gayness. He’ll allude to how a gay person annoyed him, or how gay men compliment his leather coat. As a single man in a big city, gayness is visible in his world even without him seeking it out. He notices it. As a younger man growing up around the entertainment industry, and living around the youthful party scene in modern times, gayness must have been even more visible in Elliot Rodger’s world. Yet he doesn’t give it a mention. He’s obsessed with the sexual world, yet never once comments on gayness.

        There had to be a few gays at all-boys Crespi. There had to be a couple suspects at Pinecrest. Taft High School has a Gay-Straight Alliance club, which are all the rage on high school campuses. Gayness is a cause celebre now in high school. His story doesn’t add up.

        Sheila Tone

        May 26, 2014 at 12:46 pm

      • You’re projecting gayness onto him because you had a bad experience with a man who turned out to be gay.

        Everything in Elliot’s autobiography adds up to social anxiety and neuroticism, nothing adds up to gayness.

        Maybe being called a “faggot” was so painful to him that he didn’t want to write anything else about gay men?

      • “You’re projecting gayness onto him because you had a bad experience with a man who turned out to be gay.”

        Who are you thinking of? I’ve known a lot of gay guys, and probably blogged about a few. But I’m not thinking of ones I dated — they didn’t talk or write like him. And the Catholic virgin never came out gay; he’s still living an asexual life in his 40s, at least per my source.

        The guy Elliot reminds me of is a former high school/college friend, let’s call him DG. He was half-Hispanic and also went to an all-boys school, but not a rich one like Crespi. Like Elliot, his family had some money but he wished they were richer. Like Elliot, he did not like his non-white side, although embracing it would have seemed helpful. Like Elliot, he was on the small side (and not nearly as facially attractive; he actually had some hormone disorder.) Like Elliot, he seemed smart but did poorly in school due to lack of discipline and ditching — he did not graduate from the Catholic school, but finished up his senior year at a military-style boarding school for kids with problems.

        Like Elliot; he caught a lot of flak for how he acted, although he did have friends and never got beat up (but did come at people drunk once or twice. Guy liked to drink.). He had flamboyant, sneering mannerisms, and an obsession with luxury and fashion. His writing style was a lot like Elliot’s. He liked to pretend he was Valmont in Dangerous Liasons and I was that Marquise Whoever played by Glenn Close in the movie. Damn, he loved that movie.

        He had a troubled relationship with his mother. His parents divorced when he was young, and he lived primarily with his grandparents. I met his dad once, and he was an attractive, charming Hispanic guy. I never met his mom.

        He was a pathological liar. After he read the Lords of Discipline, he actually lied about admission to the Citadel, and faked matriculation. He called me after a day “there” and said he was leaving after being attacked in his bed.

        He would claim to be pining for certain girls, but it was guys who really held his attention. He would praise or criticize women’s physical attributes, but the women he liked were gay icons like Isabella Rossellini. He would act jealous sometimes when I had boyfriends, but he never tried anything with me. Gay or straight, a man still has a male ego.

        He had grandiose revenge fantasies.

        He eventually came out, reportedly, after we stopped hanging out. He got arrested for shoplifting (a big gay-man crime), and embezzlement at his job at a luxury department store. He never did finish college. He always wanted to be a lawyer, but did not become one, although a background search I did turned up him using “Esq.” after his name. Figures.

        So I think of him when I analyze Elliot — a closeted, grandiose misfit. And because he was such a big liar, it’s not a big leap for me to imagine Elliot as a liar.

        Sheila Tone

        May 26, 2014 at 1:46 pm

      • You wouldn’t have known Elliot because he was too afraid of girls to have female friends. In fact, after he was put into the continuation high school, he didn’t have any friends at all except for James, and James eventually ditched him when he became too weird.

        Elliot didn’t get into fashion until the last two years of his life.

        Elliot liked all-American blonde California girls, not gay icons.

        I will give you that Elliot really liked expensive food, and flying first class on airplanes. I think he was just very sensitive to status because he had none.

    • I did meet DG in drama club, come to think of it. I can’t believe Elliot was never in a drama club or a choral group. Catholic schools are big on that artsy stuff.

      People have asked — if Elliot was gay, why would he need to hide it? My analysis of DG’s need to hide was that he hungered for mainstream dominance and acceptance. No matter how much acceptance of gayness there is, it will always be a minority.

      Both DG and Elliot seemed obsessed with meeting a broadly drawn caricature of mainstream standards. It didn’t seem like their desires came from inside themselves; it seemed they just wanted to be what they thought was the most loved and accepted and powerful, so they seized on TV images that didn’t really mean anything to them. Elliot’s stated desires have that same insincere, borrowed tone that DG’s did.

      Sheila Tone

      May 26, 2014 at 2:26 pm

      • “Elliot liked all-American blonde California girls, not gay icons”

        DG claimed to like those, too. I think that’s why he hung around me — I could kind of *look* the part. I was close enough to that caricature to satisfy someone who just needed a beard.

        Sheila Tone

        May 26, 2014 at 2:36 pm

      • So you claim his autobiography was a 137-page fake account of his life in order to convince the world that he’s not gay? This doesn’t meet the Occam’s Razor test.

      • Now, Lion, it could be true as he believes it, and still not be true. He may have lived in a fantasy world. And it makes perfect sense that someone willing to kill for status would also invest effort in deceiving others for status.

        He found what he thought was a compelling narrative in the PUA online world, and he ran with it.

        I bet he read roissy (which auto correct keeps changing to prissy). Has anyone figured out his handle?

        Sheila Tone

        May 26, 2014 at 2:59 pm

      • So you claim his autobiography was a 137-page fake account of his life in order to convince the world that he’s not gay? This doesn’t meet the Occam’s Razor test.

        You expect logic from her?

        She’s projecting her own sexual trauma onto this latest mass shooter. When wimmenz begin projecting you’re supposed to get out of the way and watch in terror.

        The Undiscovered Jew

        May 26, 2014 at 4:48 pm

      • Undiscovered, what sexual trauma? I’m talking about a former close friend who was an angry closet case. I think their commonalities are relevant to the analysis.

        The guy wrote me dozens of letters (not romantic), and he sounded like this guy, minus the violent plot.

        I guess most of the readers here will find a way to shoehorn this into their theory that women’s unfairly high sexual standards will ruin society and bring ruin upon women.

        Sheila Tone

        May 26, 2014 at 5:18 pm

  6. A half Chinese guy with a Moroccan “Middle Eastern” stepmother certainly doesn’t fare well. The overly assertive, hard charging, alpha-think of the Islamics was probably too much for his beta Chinese upbringing.

    JS

    May 26, 2014 at 9:45 am

    • “A half Chinese guy with a Moroccan “Middle Eastern” stepmother certainly doesn’t fare well. The overly assertive, hard charging, alpha-think of the Islamics was probably too much for his beta Chinese upbringing.”

      Anecdotal and all, but most of the Muslims I’ve known have been anything but hard-charging and Alpha.


      ” I was still in the process of going through puberty at the time, so I still looked and sounded like a ten-year-old.”

      So in tenth grade he was still not fully through puberty? If he’s telling the truth, which I doubt, his parents certainly would have gotten medical treatment for his delayed puberty. Which he curiously does not mention.


      “She told me he will never have any problems with girls, and will lose his virginity while he’s young. ”

      An adult woman talk with her stepson about his brother’s impending loss of virginity? I don’t believe it.

      Peter

      ironrailsironweights

      May 26, 2014 at 10:17 am

      • That he looked like a 10-year-old may have been a bit of an exaggeration, but there is absolutely no reason to not believe that he was late-developing and looked too young to be a high school student.

      • And he also mentioned he hated his Middle Eastern stepmother who taunted him for his virginity. His biological Chinese mother would have said nothing, and probably told him to be a quiet beta guy and things will work out at the end.

        JS

        May 26, 2014 at 11:14 am

      • Yeah, I thought those alleged comments by the stepmom were suspect. Not only for their outrageously bad taste, but it’s hard to believe she talks so much like him.

        Sheila Tone

        May 26, 2014 at 12:51 pm

      • ======
        “She told me he will never have any problems with girls, and will lose his virginity while he’s young. ”

        An adult woman talk with her stepson about his brother’s impending loss of virginity? I don’t believe it.
        ======

        It’s a form of emotional abuse. Wouldn’t be surprising at all. The father probably shared all of the son’s insecurities w/ his wife. Fucked up stuff.

        There is a reason the evil step-mother is a popular device in cartoons and children’s movies.

        anon

        May 26, 2014 at 1:06 pm

    • Arabs are lot more alpha the Chinese when it comes sexual relations. I should have said Arabic and not Islamic, as South Asian Muslims aren’t as alpha as their brothers in the Middle East.

      Seriously, multiculturalism in America and much of the Anglo world is a disease or a dysfunctionality. The Anglos just don’t know how to cook up a spicy stew by integrating and setting boundaries with their 3rd world ingredients.

      JS

      May 26, 2014 at 11:12 am

      • Pakistanis don’t screw around. Look at the UK’s recent experience.

        In Asia, they’re known for going through Indonesian/Malaysian women like candy…complete with harem building and abuse.

        anon

        May 26, 2014 at 1:10 pm

  7. From your summary World of Warcraft killed that kid (and his victims).

    It gave him another world to live in so he could ignore the real world and never take corrective action to improve in response to the negative feedback he was getting.

    Eventually the negative feedback got too strong for him to ignore any longer and his ego was too invested in thinking of himself as too good to change so he lashed out at everyone else.

    He wouldn’t take small less painful corrective action for his life so he flamed out entirely.

    Sounds more narcissistic than neurotic.

    Steve Johnson

    May 26, 2014 at 10:05 am

    • At one point in his late teens Rodger stopped playing World of Warcraft because he recognized he was using it as a distraction from his miserable and disappointing meatspace life, as a way of avoiding his problems, and instead he started at least taking walks outside and doing other stuff in meatspace. But his social circle, such as it was, kept pestering him to get back into World of Warcraft, and finally he succumbed, likely because he was having no success in meatspace. I did the same thing in my late teens, but I never looked back and so I did manage to find at least some social success, get laid, etc.

      sciences with lisps

      May 26, 2014 at 11:05 am

      • It also didn’t help (huge understatement – it killed him and the people he murdered) that he got into PUAhate.

        Every molecule of this guy’s body was crying out to get laid but the mechanism for getting laid – being socially engaged – was hijacked by a group that makes not getting laid a condition for membership.

        Talk about fucked up.

        puahate and WoW killed this asshole.

        Steve Johnson

        May 26, 2014 at 3:27 pm

      • PUAhate evolved out of failed PUA. We have no idea if PUA would have given him PUA (Poon Under Assertion).

        JS

        May 26, 2014 at 5:05 pm

      • You’re missing my point JS.

        The normal path to mating is to be sociable. Eventually a man will meet a woman who is attracted to him and things will happen.

        This guy joined an artificial community- so his “socialize to get laid” instinct was quieted. That community had as an entrance requirement that you be bad with women and “incel”. He then was trapped – the only way he could improve would be by abandoning his adopted community – with no guarantee that he could join a new one. That’s both against his instinct and too daring – so instead he snapped.

        puahate didn’t keep him from becoming a master PUA – it kept him from developing a social circle that included women.

        Steve Johnson

        May 27, 2014 at 1:57 am

  8. “I haven’t written much about Elliot’s parents yet. Elliot’s mother, Li Chin, is Malaysian Chinese, and his father, Peter Rodger, is Scottish.”

    I think we have to guess at his father’s influences, but they seem present. How does a 20-year old in 2010-2014 develop a deep and abiding taste for Steve Winwood? I assume modeling behavior from his dad. His father had a hobby of selling arty nude photos of women. How does a kid develop an obsession with a particular body type? KIM, this ridiculous “hobby” was part of the reason he was away from the family. “Sorry kids I can’t be there, have some important butt shots to take in Paris.”

    A psychological profile can’t take 100% of the statements in this document at face value. what isn’t in here, and why? “all i want is to be loved by women” – speaks to rejection by mom; obsessing over his dad’s hobbies/interests – speaks to rejection by dad. an amateur approach here, but it seems to be heading towards understanding.

    lion of the lionosphere

    May 26, 2014 at 10:12 am

    • He says very little about his mother. It’s hard to draw any conclusions about her.

      His father, on the other hand, is talked about a lot more. He desired the respect and attention from his father, but his father was distant and often away from home. There is no mention at all of the father giving him any sort of fatherly advice. After he turned 18, Soumaya banned him from his father’s house and the father went along with it, so that’s a picture of a father who’s completely disinterested in trying to help his son.

      • Is his father a macho type, an alpha guy? It’s not uncommon that the father would spurn a son who he regarded as a weak, a loser. He would want to distance himself from the sad-sack fruit of his loins.

        And I can’t imagine a worse fate than getting a Middle Eastern step mom! Tribal and ethno-centric off the bat, hot-headed, raised with a far more masculine idea of what men should be, she must have been busting Rodger’s ass all the time. I mean look at her, she screams “insufferable pain in the ass” from across the room.

        In a humorous twist, Ms. Akaaboune, a minor actress, had a minor role in the film “Lovelace,” about porn star Linda Lovelace. Looking her up on IMDB, Akaaboune’s character is listed as “Feminist #1”! I kid you not.

        Feminism: leading American men to their deaths for over 60 years! #rootcauses

        peterike

        May 26, 2014 at 11:17 am

      • a big tell of a giant psychological hangup is (a) someone with major issues with women, who (b) doesn’t like to talk about his mother.

        if your dad had a hobby of shooting artful butt shots around the world – did the son know about this hobby? were the photos displayed around the house? think of the normative example this would set. contrast this with parents who might be shy about even PDA with each other in front of the kids.

        anyway – all i’m really driving at with my comments is – when are we going to see parental accountability in these mass-shootings?

        we’re going to hear about gun control – what about parent control? should peter rodgers pay reparations to the families of the kids who were murdered? or is he going to hide behind the gun control banner and try to forget that he might have had a big hand in his child becoming unhinged?

        we have licenses to own guns – what about licenses to have children? might solve a lot of problems.

        lion of the lionosphere

        May 26, 2014 at 12:08 pm

      • It depends. I think that Adam Lanza was too seriously weird and messed up to have been helped, although is mother shouldn’t have taught him how to shoot guns. James Holmes was independently living in Colorado as a grad student and had schizophrenia.

        However, I do think that Elliot could have been helped if his parents had been more attentive and clued in to what their son was struggling with. So yes, I do assign blame to Elliot’s parents.

      • Tribal and ethno-centric off the bat, hot-headed, raised with a far more masculine idea of what men should be, she must have been busting Rodger’s ass all the time. I mean look at her, she screams “insufferable pain in the ass” from across the room.

        Yes! Yes! Yes!

        Especially taunting a kid who’s part Asian is the tragic part about this. All thanks to multiculturalism, as the spice of life takes hold in the Anglosphere world.

        JS

        May 26, 2014 at 12:13 pm

      • Is his father a macho type, an alpha guy? It’s not uncommon that the father would spurn a son who he regarded as a weak, a loser. He would want to distance himself from the sad-sack fruit of his loins.

        As Lion has stated – a word of caution for White men who want to get into relationships with East Asian women!

        JS

        May 26, 2014 at 12:26 pm

    • I don’t see what else his parents could have done, except maybe be entirely different people. They pulled him out of school when he complained. They got him mental health treatment. They bought him cool stuff.

      Sheila Tone

      May 26, 2014 at 12:55 pm

      • I agree. It makes no sense to blame the parents. Though the step-mom seems like a nasty piece of work who dominated his father.

        Rosenmops

        May 26, 2014 at 2:48 pm

  9. I label his document as an autobiography, not a memoir and not a “manifesto” as people keep wrongly calling it.

    I think the title Industrial Society and Its Future is catchy.

    Was the joint custody arrangement a spiteful divorce settlement used as leverage by Peter to avoid paying higher alimony to his ex-wife…?

    I would say so. I don’t think his father had an interest in actual parenting

    ScarletNumber

    May 26, 2014 at 10:16 am

  10. This is a fine summary, thank you.

    I agree that the basic problem was neuroticism+physical weakness, and this problem was amplified into something monstrous by very poor understanding and reaction in his family and therapists. This proves again the very specious value of “psychology” as a science: nobody could understand what a blogger just did.

    Is Eliott blameless for what he became and did though? That is the question. While there’s nothing he could do about neuroticism, and few about his body (this is strange he never thought about plastic surgery, though, notably limb elongation surgery, or eye color change), I am under the impression that there was a lot of miserabilism, complacency and immaturity in him. Things he could have acted upon.

    I don’t blame him for wanting to kill people (who never did? seriously), but desiring to kill his little brother out of resentment shocked me.

    Thomas

    May 26, 2014 at 10:18 am

  11. Wonder if the younger brother was actually his half-brother with his Dad’s second wife. That would explain preferential treatment towards the younger brother and cruel treatment directed at him, the “baggage” stepchild who the woman had no biological relationship with.

    The way he looks and acts he seems permanently stuck at about age 12, maybe 13. He never achieved the psychological maturity to understand he had advantages in life, even social and opportunities, that many people would have envied.

    McFly

    May 26, 2014 at 10:28 am

    • Yes, Jazz was his half-brother.

      As far as his advantages in life, children don’t realize they are economically advantaged or disadvantaged, they are just used to the environment in which they grow up. Relative to his peer group of successful Hollywood families, he was definitely very disadvantaged in physical attributes and personality.

      • This.

        Status is relative to the peer group. That is why it is so important for parents to make sure that their kids are raised to the standard of their peer group…at least.

        map

        May 26, 2014 at 12:20 pm

      • Jazz — probably short for Jasminder, a common Indian name. Although I understand the stepmom wasn’t Indian.

        Sheila Tone

        May 26, 2014 at 12:58 pm

      • His name is Jazz because Hollywood types like to give their progeny names like that. They were probably planning his career in show business before he was even born, and figured that Jazz would be a cool name for a young actor.

      • Right, “children” don’t realize this, and neither would a 22-year old with the mentality of a child.

        McFly

        May 26, 2014 at 3:28 pm

      • “Relative to his peer group of successful Hollywood families, he was definitely very disadvantaged in physical attributes and personality”

        Yes as other commenters have described, he fixated on circles of white, rich kids, hence the talk about blond girls and the choice of the sorority house as a target.

        If he had tried to hang out with say, potheads, surfers, nerds, religious kids, a clique of friends from an after-school or summer job, he would have certainly met people who have at least tolerated him, then got something instead of nothing.

        McFly

        May 26, 2014 at 3:49 pm

    • Here is a video of Jazz Rodger. From the shape of his face we can 99.9% sure this is Peter Rodger’s biological son.

      Loving Cup

      May 26, 2014 at 11:44 am

      • He definitely will not have the problems like his older half brother because 1) he doesn’t look Asian 2) from an HBD perspective, Middle Easterners are generally more extroverted and hot blooded than many White Europeans; putting in Asians into a non-comparison category when it comes to extroversion.

        JS

        May 26, 2014 at 12:09 pm

      • Jazz seems like the typical cute, showoffy Hollywood kid who has grown up with lessons and encouragement.

        Seems like Elliot would have grown up with the same resources.

        Sheila Tone

        May 26, 2014 at 1:02 pm

      • Elliot Rodger looks a bit like Richard Ramirez, the Night Stalker. Had he grown his hair more like him he might have been able to pull chicks that way. And it was a shame he killed himself; after going on a spree kill like that, he would have plenty of girls (and guys) offering him sex.

        Loving Cup

        May 26, 2014 at 1:02 pm

    • The step-mother is Moroccan.

      Rosenmops

      May 26, 2014 at 2:51 pm

    • Yes. I’m constantly struck in this story by the way this young man seemed to give in to despair instead of using his intelligence, his social contacts (family, etc..) and money to try to change his situation. Did he read books on how to do well with women – not “pick up” books but books that tell you how to develop a genuine social life? Did he look on the internet for articles by women about what a woman wants in a man? Did he discuss his social awkwardness with his therapist(s)? To me, he seems all too ready to give up and too eager to seek revenge. Anyone who’s reached the age of 22 and has a decent enough IQ knows that you can’t live a live of nothing more than partying and having sex with hot-looking women/men. Why didn’t he cultivate some kind of genuine education or career while working on his social life? This kid’s problem was not a lack of sex. He was angry at feeling he was rejected by his family members – especially his mother and step-mother. The bullying in school added fuel to the fire until he snapped. My guess is that if every hot blonde in California was throwing herself at him he’d only have found another reason to be angry at women – probably by saying that they’re shallow and only want him for his good looks and money but “they don’t value me for the exemplary specimen of manhood that I am” (that sounds like him, doesn’t it?)

      MaryK

      May 26, 2014 at 3:09 pm

      • High Ns are likely to find even “minor frustrations as hopelessly difficult,” and he was too afraid of women to be able to get any benefit from reading advice about how to do better with women.

  12. Something that’s just come out is that Peter Rodgers arranged to have his friend Dale Launer, a screenwriter (My Cousin Vinny) and an “expert with women” give advice to Elliott. It was unsuccessful, which didn’t surprise Elliott because he “couldn’t mind-control girls to be attracted to me.”

    Peter

    ironrailsironweights

    May 26, 2014 at 10:29 am

    • That was in the book. That occurred when Elliot was living at Santa Barbara and planning his Day of Retribution, so it was too little too late. He could have used some good male advice when he was younger, but he never got that.

  13. Excellent summary, Lion. I am more sympathetic to the mental illness view, or at least the view that whatever plagued him was innate. From my reading of his autobiography (and thank you for stating that it was not a manifesto), it does seem his parents tried to help him a lot, as evidenced by their willingness to constantly move schools, hire psychiatrists and social councillor for him, set up playdates, etc. Yes, his parents were divorced, but they cared about him enough that what happened to him occurred despite, rather than because of, their efforts.

    I am also not fully on board with the narcissistic disorder theory. He described himself as loser throughout the the text. The occasional references to his superiority in the videos and the text were an obvious effort to project what he wanted to be, rather than what he thought he was. Hence the phony maniacal laugh. He wanted to be the guy with that laugh — the alter-ego dictator that he fantasized being — but knew he never would be.

    Juan DaShawn Arafat, MSNBC commentator

    May 26, 2014 at 10:42 am

    • “The occasional references to his superiority in the videos and the text were an obvious effort to project what he wanted to be, rather than what he thought he was.”

      Exactly!

    • Moving schools and going to psychiatrists will not help. None of those thing solve the social/status/sexual dynamic that operates in schools starting at about the 7th grade.

      map

      May 26, 2014 at 12:24 pm

    • The references to his superiority weren’t occasional–they were an ongoing theme throughout the second half of his writing. He was definitely narcissistic as well as neurotic. He also had a cruel, vengeful personality. If he had just been neurotic he would have quietly committed suicide instead of publishing ideas about taking over the world as a god-like leader. His plans included far more mayhem and blood-shed then what actually occurred. He wanted to flay the skin off his room mates and pour boiling water on them before killing them. He was a sadist. He planned to behead them and throw the heads out of his vehicle as he shot up Isla Vista. He wanted to kill far more people than he actually killed. His plan fizzled out, thank goodness.

      He planned to carry out his murders on Saturday May 24th, but instead he went ahead with it on Friday night before. I’m wondering if he got drunk on Friday night. He wrote often about getting drunk as a way of trying to calm his fears and rage. Perhaps he emailed his plans and posted his final video while drunk, then realized people were going to stop him before the next morning so we went ahead with it right away.

      Rosenmops

      May 26, 2014 at 3:26 pm

  14. This is your most socially astute post, Lion. I am impressed.

    Two questions I have now:

    1) Wht didn’t his parents give him growth hormone treatments? These are pretty common now for undersized kids. My sister is a nurse who has a side job working for one of the manufacturers, teaching kids & parents how to do the injections. She’s had everyone from Puerto Ricans on Medicaid to Hollywood actors as clients/patients.

    2) Why do so many commenters (from Sheila Tone to Heartiste) insist this kid was gay, despite all evidence to the contrary?

    Dave Pinsen

    May 26, 2014 at 10:50 am

    • The gay meme fits into the trendy belief that everyone who has problem with women must be gay. Although homosexuality is no longer considered a mental illness, it’s still a trendy diagnosis much like ADHD and Aspergers.

      On the other hand, neuroticism and and extreme shyness are no longer trendy as mental problems, so that’s just ignored.

      • Moreover, most gay men, even closeted gay men, find it easier to make friends with women than with men. So, no, Elliot was not gay — he did not ever mention a single female friend.

        Logan Circle Dreaming

        May 26, 2014 at 11:25 am

      • An example of people just spouting out their pet theories without even bothering to read the autobiography and understand Elliot’s true motivations.

      • No. Plenty of men have problems with women and they don’t look gay and they don’t humiliate their sister. This guy looks gay and talked about his sister having sex. Plus, there seems to be some notion on this site that most gay men have female friends. Maybe, but the key word there is ‘most.’ So, we have the ‘most’ gay men have female friends stereotype vs the effeminate men are gay stereotype. Add to the mix his willingness to talk about his sister having sex and I think the weight of the evidence veers towards suppressed gay.

        This dude really wasn’t that into girls. He was into something else, perhaps the validation he thought would come from having an attractive girlfriend. Guys who are really into girls find a way to get one regardless of their looks. That doesn’t suggest all men without girlfriends are gay, rather they are lazy or don’t want the hassle or are preoccupied. But, this fellow proclaims at each and every moment his desire to find a girl. If he wanted it so badly he would have found it.

        Curle

        May 26, 2014 at 2:11 pm

      • Logan: You’re bi. You probably do both sides well, so of course they couldn’t tell.

        Sheila Tone

        May 26, 2014 at 2:14 pm

      • Let’s say status is a requirement to get blond women, which his something he didn’t have. So yes, he was obsess with a fuzzy idea of “status”. He laments why unattractive brown men are able to go out with White blondes, and he couldn’t, despite his “good” looks. And let’s say status is an ambiguous term like Alpha, which can mean several things.

        JS

        May 26, 2014 at 4:04 pm

    • Has anyone dismissing the gay theory SEEN those videos?

      I don’t see how it doesn’t jump out and throttle you.

      It even jumps off the page. None of you guys write in that hissy, prissy tone.

      I don’t know where you all come from, but in Southern California, that’s classic, flaming gay. It’s not an uncommon thing to see, and it’s not socially acceptable to bully people for acting like that anymore. Things have changed a lot since we were in high school.

      Sheila Tone

      May 26, 2014 at 1:08 pm

      • I agree that he looks effeminate in the videos. But that’s partly because his social isolation from other males prevented him from learning how to behave in a more masculine manner. And party because he was born looking that way, which led to the bullying he received.

        There are men who look effeminate who are not gay. Steve Sailer even wrote about that topic once.

      • There are effeminate straight men, and there are masculine gay men.

        Dave Pinsen

        May 26, 2014 at 1:34 pm

      • I’m gay, and, to me, in addition to his delusional self-assessment, Rodgers comes off effeminate — but there are plenty of heterosexual men like that.

        Many women think they are more perceptive than they really are when it comes to sussing out gayness in men — I was dating women while working as a go-go dancer and stripper in gay clubs and none of them ever suspected a thing.

        Logan Circle Dreaming

        May 26, 2014 at 1:42 pm

      • “There are men who look effeminate who are not gay.”

        I know this. And to me, there’s a noticeable difference between the two types. I sure wish there were more women around here so someone else would know what I’m talking about.

        Effeminate men don’t necessarily have problems getting women.

        Sheila Tone

        May 26, 2014 at 2:12 pm

      • He was too shy to even talk to girls. So there was no way he was going to get girls. If he looked like a hunk, girls might have made the first move on him, but that wasn’t the case.

        I think you just have a complete inability to understand his social anxieties.

      • I have on occasion been asked by women if I was gay. I am not camp or feminine acting, merely a little reserved and withdrawn . I have straight male friends who have had the same experience. It was generally not meant as an insult, (in a messed up way it can be meant as a compliment) but I’ve always found it irritating.

        There seems to be quite a few women who watch a few episodes of sex and gay-heavy shows like Will and Grace and start imagining that they are sophisticated, cosmopolitan women with ‘gaydar’ and concomitant insights into male sexuality that, quite frankly, they do not have, and which are often crass, simplistic and stereotypical (“man not talking about sport, man drinking soft drinks, man must be gay”). Not only are these women deluding themselves about just how much they understand human nature, but they are also adding to the issues of the Elliott Rodgers of this world. Years ago he may have been dismissed as an oddball or a loner, whereas nowadays he has to cope with the certainty that the Sheila Tones of this world will attribute anything and everything beyond their ken to his being gay, further damaging his self esteem.

        Of course, aking women whether or not they are lesbians, or offering a diagnosis of lesbianism for every news story involving a dysfunctional women would doubtless be seen as the height of male bigotry and ignorance.

        As others have said, the quotes Lion gives here indicate that he was a frustrated straight guy.

        Prolier Than Thou

        May 26, 2014 at 2:25 pm

      • Excellent comment, Prolier Than Thou.

      • “There are men who look effeminate who are not gay.” —————

        I’m not sure if you intended to distinguish ‘look’ from ‘act.’ I’d be interested in the collective opinions of the older commenters to this site since we’re testing this proposition via crowd-proofing. The above opinion seems more plausible, as an observation, when made by younger people. Some men, in fact, can hide it for many years. However, it comes out eventually.

        I work with a guy, in his late 50s, who just came out for the first time. When you are youngish you often know effeminate men who you think are not gay. They even date women. They get married. Thirty years on however, they’ve all come out of the closet or have been exposed. By the way, I’m not conflating refined, nerdy or weak with effeminate. There’s a difference.

        Curle

        May 26, 2014 at 3:19 pm

      • The all-gay-all-the-time mainstream media has convinced people that gays are a lot more common than they really are. I am sure that 50-year-old men who come out of the closet are extremely rare outside of TV shows.

      • Prolier, my problem was assuming heterosexuality, not assuming gayness. And you’re making some unwarranted assumptions about my TV viewing habits.

        Plenty of people in the world put on acts. I don’t see why many of you are so outraged at the suggestion that a histrionic, status-obsessed spree killer might be less than completely honest about his life and motives.

        Sheila Tone

        May 26, 2014 at 3:24 pm

      • Sheila, he was obsessed with blonde women and his virginity, and getting revenge against his “enemies,” not with status.

      • Very good comment, Curle.

        Sheila Tone

        May 26, 2014 at 3:27 pm

      • ” I am sure that 50-year-old men who come out of the closet are extremely rare outside of TV shows.” ————

        In the past two years at my workplace (law related) one 50+ year old man came out, a former employee 40+ years old came out and a former LS classmate, also in his forties came out. Not so uncommon.

        Curle

        May 26, 2014 at 3:34 pm

      • “One time, as I was shopping at the Calvin Klein store in Camarillo, I saw such a sexy-looking blonde girl with perfectly tanned skin. She looked so beautiful and sexy that I had an erection instantly.
        Oh, the heavenly things I wanted to do to her…” – that does not sound gay

        anon1973

        May 27, 2014 at 4:23 am

    • You know, people keep calling him “effeminate,” but I’m a woman, and *I* don’t think I talk or write anything like he did. Most women don’t.

      The striking quality of his speech and writing is how affected they seem. He does not sound genuine; he has very exaggerated affectations. It could be he’s covering up something else besides gayness; it’s just that gayness is a common thing to lie about.

      Sheila Tone

      May 26, 2014 at 3:53 pm

  15. I think Lion nails it here. This kid had the unfortunate combination of short stature and high neuroricism, combined with parents who seem clueless and/or uninvolved. Any one of these could be overcome, but the combination was deadly.

    I was similar, personality-wise, growing up (and even now, although I did manage to eventually shake myself out of it and get married). Painfully shy, few friends, lusting after girls but unable to do anything about it. But I was also tall – pretty much the tallest in my grade, from first grade all the way through high school. Bullying, other than the odd insult from afar, wasn’t a problem for me. (I also came from an intact, loving family, which obviously is huge too) Middle and high school weren’t exactly great for me, but I have often thought how utterly miserable they would have been if I had been short, or even normal sized…

    Jimbo

    May 26, 2014 at 10:53 am

    • Excellent observations, Jimbo.

    • Elliot also clearly had narcissistic personality disorder and was a psychopath..

      Shawn

      May 26, 2014 at 11:35 am

      • Wrong on both accounts.

        As Juan correctly stated in an earlier comment, “He described himself as loser throughout the the text. The occasional references to his superiority in the videos and the text were an obvious effort to project what he wanted to be, rather than what he thought he was.”

        And a psychopath is generally the very opposite of Elliot’s personality. Psychopaths have “disinhibited or bold behavior,” while Elliot is the opposite, fearful and anxious. Thus psychopaths are often successful with women, the very opposite of Elliot. The appearance that Elliot lacks sympathy for others is the result of his social isolation.

      • Throwing coffee and super soaker orange juice on random strangers, not to mention killing 6 people seems kind of bold and uninhibited. Taking a gazillion selfies seems kind of narcissistic. I know he describes himself as fearful and anxious, but it might be more revealing to read about how others described him.

        pumpkinperson

        May 26, 2014 at 12:20 pm

      • Haven’t you ever looked Facebook, Twitter, instragram, etc? In today’s world, taking videos and pictures of yourself is just normal behavior and does not indicate any unusual psychological pathology.

        Throwing drinks at people who enraged him for being happy couples: yes, obviously weird behavior, he sadly became very weird in the post-high-school phase of his life, which is obviously why his best friend James eventually cut off all contact with him. However, from the definition of neuroticism, “they may have trouble controlling urges and delaying gratification,” which explains why Elliot was unable to control the urge to do something spiteful to the happy couples that caused him extreme envy and jealousy.

        When all of his behavior is a textbook case of someone highly neurotic, I don’t see the need to look for other mental illnesses.

      • I was reading the book “Devil in the White City”, the story juxtaposing the creation of the Chicago World’s Fair in 1890 with the activities of the serial killer H.H. Holmes. Holmes was a consummate lady’s man who was a natural at Game. A period description of him read that he often insisted on relations with women that one would only find in marriage and he ripped many a beta-male’s wife from her husband. He had all the dark triad traits (psychopathy, risk-taking, narcissism, Machiavellianism) plus the intelligence to pull it off.

        The man was a horrifying monster, like a “Saw” movie made manifest in real life.

        This kid was not it.

        map

        May 26, 2014 at 12:53 pm

      • Good point about Facebook. Perhaps a gazillion selfies and self-videos is now almost normal. But a 137 page book about yourself? One might argue he’s just a text-book narcissist which would also explain his psychopathic behavior since the two disorders are so closely linked that psychologists debate merging them into one.

        I haven’t read his autobiography, but if he were a psychopath/narcissist, odds are it’s just an attempt to manipulate his readers.

        pumpkinperson

        May 26, 2014 at 1:04 pm

      • Narcissists believe they are great, and if Elliot believed that then he wouldn’t have been so afraid of girls, he would have believe they would think he was great and that they wanted him to talk to them.

        And psychopaths don’t cry, and don’t have social anxiety.

      • Narcissists are confident and often competitive, and want to do everything to ensure the sun also shines on them, and for many hetero guys, it means female fans and admirers. He clearly didn’t have any of that, but lamented the fact that others were better than him. Narcissists complain a lot but they don’t back down, which is what he did.

        JS

        May 26, 2014 at 3:30 pm

    • But Jimbo, did you write like Elliot? Did you talk like Elliot? Were you obsessed with fashion? I’ll bet the answer is no on all counts.

      Sheila Tone

      May 26, 2014 at 1:12 pm

      • Elliot was obsessed with blond girls, and he thought that fashion would help him win girls. And it was a delayed reaction to the bullying he received in Taft High School because he wore nerdy clothing to school.

        If you read the autobiography, he describes his motivations for buying expensive clothes.

      • I wouldn’t say he was obsessed with fashion. But he was certainly a narcissist. He felt he was smarter, better mannered, more sophisticated and, in general, a superior person than those around him.

        Rosenmops

        May 26, 2014 at 3:56 pm

      • He writes: “I had no talents, so it was impossible for me to become a professional actor, musician, or athlete; and those were usually the ways that young people acquired such money. I could invent something, or start a business just like Mark Zuckerberg did with Facebook, but the chances of me achieving such a thing were the same chances I had of winning the lottery anyway. I didn’t even have the skills of a computer programmer.”

        Does that sound like something a narcissist would write? If you were to actually bother to read the autobiography, you would see that he’s definitely not a narcissist. A true narcissist would write a testament to how great he was, instead of a 137-page opus explaining why he’s a loser.

  16. Lion…

    Not only do you use the diabolical euphemism “gay” as a substitute for homosexual, but you also remain ideologically transfixed to the liberal’s definition of homosexuality.

    Elliot wasn’t sexually attracted to other males…

    He was sexually attracted to his “self” combined with a burgeoning aversion for female.

    He most likely spent nearly a decade self-sexualizing to porn (blond female porn) while a deepening disgust for females flourished. That is homo-sexuality.

    Homo = same = exact same = self…

    Please dispute this “liberating” formula.

    The laziness is on those that bash liberal lies everywhere they look except when it comes to homosexuality and “feminism.”

    The reality is that nearly ALL believe in the “right” to “love, f%#k, screw” whomever one pleases and there shall be no consequences.

    thordaddy

    May 26, 2014 at 11:18 am

    • It’s not the liberal’s definition of homosexuality, it’s the English language definition of it. It’s weird of you to insist that others accept your idiosyncratic definitions of commonly accepted words.

      Dave Pinsen

      May 26, 2014 at 1:39 pm

      • Dave…

        Are you telling me that the homo-sexual IS NOT sexually averse to the female? That merely having an “attraction to the same” would then force someone into a degenerate world of BIOLOGICAL self-annihilation?

        Anyway, “English” is Liberal for all intents and purposes, is it not?

        Lastly…

        If homo = same AND same = exact same THEN does not exact same = self?

        Is this not “English” logic 101?

        thordaddy

        May 26, 2014 at 1:59 pm

      • Homosexual means some who is attracted to one of the same sex, not one who is attracted to himself. It’s not a liberal definition of the word. It’s the same definition of the word that psychiatrists used when they still classified it as a mental illness 40 years ago.

        And most homosexual men enjoy the company of women.

        Dave Pinsen

        May 26, 2014 at 3:10 pm

  17. Sorry if this is a repeat (can’t keep up with all the comments). But his step-mom was on one of those Housewives shows, a French version of Housewives of Beverly Hills. Rich French speaking women in Hollywood. You can watch the whole season here. I’ll leave it to French speaking internet sleuths to see if anything interesting gets revealed.

    http://www.irealhousewives.com/2013/06/videos-watch-les-vraies-housewives.html

    peterike

    May 26, 2014 at 11:25 am

    • Actually Elliot appears in the first episode. The step mom’s appearance is at around 52:45. You see the the father and their son Jazz at the dinner table. Elliot appears around the 55 minute mark at the hunger games awards. It is interesting to see his movements. I am francophone and she doesn’t say anything interesting (she claims not to use aesthetic surgery). There is a scene where Peter is taking pictures of her at a beach.

      Loving Cup

      May 26, 2014 at 12:11 pm

  18. Thanks for your excellent analysis of Rodger’s autobiography. I haven’t commented on it any because a lot of it is pretty familiar from my own life. Fortunately I had better parents than this guy apparently did and managed to get a base social circle through church late in high school so that at 31 now I have a relatively normal social life, aside from a complete lack of romantic relationships.

    I tend to be a game believer in that it works better than a control behavior but the tricky part is implementation and I have never been able to overcome the anxiety talking to women even after doing occasional cold approaches over the years that went “not badly.” I know that it is not normal anxiety because I also perform stand-up comedy (very well by pretty much everyone’s account) and have only a slight anxiety right before going on stage that I can easily push through.

    I don’t know to what extent neuroticism levels can be changed as an adult but I am interested now in finding out.

    Jokah Macpherson

    May 26, 2014 at 11:33 am

    • Stand-up is way different; you don’t have to interact with anyone except hecklers, and all you want is a laugh. I know several neurotic guys who do stand-up as a hobby. Comics are famously neurotic.

      Sheila Tone

      May 26, 2014 at 1:14 pm

  19. I hope it does not look like I am piling onto the parents in this dark hour, but here’s my twenty-twenty hindsight.

    First and foremost schooling. Moving him from school to school was a big mistake, but easily made in this mobile society we live in now. Elliot would have benefited much more from going to a small parochial school from K-12 with kids that he grew up with and were used to him and any of his quirks. He’d have a circle of intimates who’d function like an extended family to pick up the slack from his parents’ divorce and his father’s estrangement thanks to the new wife.

    Second. This visitation schedule should have aligned with his father’s availability. If Elliott’s father wasn’t there to host him, then Elliott shouldn’t have been there alone with even the nicest of stepmothers which his wasn’t. Elliott’s mother should have pursued a modification.

    Third. I don’t care for the idea of buying women like commodities, but there were legal brothels in Nevada.

    Fourth. There are life coaches out there who could have taught Elliott how to feel less awkward in social settings.

    Fifth. Last and not least, there should have been some fundamental recognition on the part of his family of the great injustice done to Elliott by both his parents merely in creating him. The failure in acknowledging and preparing him for the challenges he would face as a half-caste. Are there any psychologists out there dealing in group therapy for half-castes so that they could function as a mutual support system? Somehow, I doubt the miscegenation maniacs in the media and the elite would allow that.

    clytemnestra57

    May 26, 2014 at 11:40 am

    • 3. Elliot was way too scared of women to go into a brothel.

      4. Elliot did have life coaches, but they were clueless about how to help him.

      • Yeah, the coaches basically took his parents’ money.

        Dave Pinsen

        May 26, 2014 at 1:40 pm

      • Going to a brothel or seeing a prostitute would probably have been worse than useless. He wanted women to be attracted to him. I think that’s what broke him more than merely being a virgin; he felt he was a virgin because it was impossible for any woman to be attracted to him.

        Mike Street Station

        May 27, 2014 at 8:49 pm

    • “Third. I don’t care for the idea of buying women like commodities, but there were legal brothels in Nevada.”

      Such as the Shady Lady Ranch near the town of Beatty, which helpfully puts its prices right on its website:
      40 minutes – $200, One hour $300, Two hours $400.
      Not to mention pictures of a couple of the girls:
      Rio http://www.shadyladyranch.com/rio.html
      Miss Jolene http://www.shadyladyranch.com/mj.html

      Peter

      ironrailsironweights

      May 26, 2014 at 12:06 pm

      • My goodness, there are men who would seriously pay to be with those girls?

        Anyway, I recall that Rodger does make mention in his autobiography that hiring a prostitute would reinforce his feelings of being a loser. Which seems believable enough.

        sabril

        May 27, 2014 at 3:24 am

    • He was going to a neighborhood school. Familiarity breeds contempt and kids are more likely to attack each other.

      map

      May 26, 2014 at 2:11 pm

    • “there should have been some fundamental recognition on the part of his family of the great injustice done to Elliott by both his parents merely in creating him. The failure in acknowledging and preparing him for the challenges he would face as a half-caste”

      I would imagine that people who marry outside their race don’t consider the act of creating a biracial child to be in and of itself an injustice. Otherwise thy wouldn’t do it. But I mean no sarcasm when I say that you have a very elevated sense of what parents should do for their children. I wish more people thought like you. There are, unfortunately,a lot of parents (they are in the minority,but not as rare as we’d like to think) who are largely apathetic about their children’s development and don’t take interest until a problem appears. Then there are others who refuse to admit that they could have made any mistakes as parents. This last type often force a child to spend years in dysfunction due to the parent’s unwillingness to get the child help for a problem. Allan Bloom wrote about this in “The Closing of the American Mind” where he claims that taking a child to a therapist often doesn’t help because the therapist can’t tell the parent that HE, not the child is the problem – the parent is the one paying the therapist’s fee. Also, there are parents who deliberately undermine their children – such as parents who leave alcohol around knowing that a son or daughter has a drinking problem. Many like to imagine that only poor or prole households contain parents like this. But they exist in all economic brackets. Ironically, there is no free counseling for kids in this situation because it is assumed that their parents, who have enough money, will be helping them cope.

      MaryK

      May 26, 2014 at 5:13 pm

  20. That his father allowed this to happen is unconscionable. By “this,” I mean Elliot’s social and psychological maldevelopement. He allowed his own son to continue to be a target for bulling and humiliation because he didn’t empower him to channel his rage — his inherent maleness, such that it was — into self respect. Elliot Rodgers loathed himself. Best way to respect yourself? FIGHT BACK. Regardless of the consequences. Sure, he might’ve been beaten up or wrongly blamed for the altercation, but he’d have the intense internal reward of having respected himself enough not to tolerate abuse and humiliation, and he would no longer repress that righteous animal instinct that says “I don’t have to take this shit from you.” 

    His father’s one critical duty beyond the essentials of parenting was to unlock this toolbox for his son. At very least it would have allowed him to get through adolescence and early adulthood with a hope that later maturity would pay dividends in life and love.

    His father is doubly at fault for letting his son’s sexual starvation to also go unaddressed, particularly as he himself was rather obsessed with taking pictures of what I presume is his sexy wife’s ass all over the world:

    http://www.saatchiart.com/prodger

    Here he is veritably worshipping and indulging in that which gives men joy, contentment, and peace, yet he allowed his own son to languish in sexual poverty, only lazily employing the shrink-pharma complex to expensively misattribute his problem and throw some mood-altering pills at it. You’d think he could empathize for his own son’s plight.

    The elder Rodgers, when confronted with this reality, as a last resort could and SHOULD have hired a prostitute to at least partially break the mystique of women, and rid his son of the looming monolith of soul-crippling prolonged virginity. Elliot wouldn’t have even had to know. It would be justifiably therapeutic sex surrogacy to treat the most at-risk threat: an unstable young man.

    Instead, he shuttled him into one social minefield after another without giving him the barest mentoring in how to navigate them while maintaining self-respect.

    Highly introverted people can and do learn to mimic extroversion for their own sake, and it often leads to true, mature comfort in social situations, if not outright life-of-the-party extroversion. Where was this fake-it-til-you-make-it aspect in Elliot’s life? 

    Oh, you’re scared and anxious? Here are some meds and a laptop, have a nice life. 

    If you’re going to fuck up as a parent, better to fuck up and have your son grow up to be Joran van der Sloot than Elliot Rodgers. 

    Patrick

    May 26, 2014 at 11:43 am

    • A sex surrogate who could have gently coaxed Elliot out of his fear of women would have been very beneficial for Elliot, but that’s not a mainstream psychological treatment.

      • Frankly, his father is probably just as narcissistic as he was. The primary and probably crucial difference is the son didn’t have the father’s physique. I would think his dad needed very little support growing up with girls and socialization as that would have been a given for him because he was physically bigger or about the same as his peer. This would have meant that he wouldn’t have known or been very good at empathizing with whatever his kid was going through.

        Give yourself some kudos reading the entire thing.

        L

        May 26, 2014 at 12:20 pm

      • I knew this is what the men on this blog would say. But I doubt it would have helped. This kid’s sense of entitlement was too extreme. He would have found a reason to be angry with women no matter what. Probably he would have claimed that she didn’t do it the way he wanted it done. Then with other girls he’d be mad because they didn’t give it up quickly enough. Then he’d have been angry because a girl wanted a real relationship and not just casual sex. His comment would have been “you gave it up for Tommy after one week, so why does Ellliot Rodger have to wait months?” His problems started long before he was old enough to date.

        MaryK

        May 26, 2014 at 3:45 pm

      • Yes, Lion does deserve approbation for actually read it. And I mean this as I normally do not flatter people.

        Latias

        May 26, 2014 at 4:09 pm

      • MaryK – He feels entitled because of our shaming culture of men who can’t get laid are losers and need to be marginalized. So his feelings are a form of reactionary tendencies. Certainly with the pervasive shaming message coming from game blogs and PUA philosophy doesn’t make him happier, which has an adherence of quick sex ASAP, or else you’re a loser.

        JS

        May 26, 2014 at 4:09 pm

      • “men who can’t get laid are losers and need to be marginalized”

        Certainly, if he had grown up in the fifties back when it was considered normal to not have sex until marriage (even though it may not have happened like that the majority of time, society presented the message that it was the normal behavior), he wouldn’t have felt like a loser because he was a high-school-aged virgin.

    • Another excellent analysis.

      From what I’ve read in the autobiography, his father was a weak, irresponsible man who might actually have hated his son ever since his divorce with the mother.

      Thomas

      May 26, 2014 at 12:17 pm

    • “Oh, you’re scared and anxious? Here are some meds and a laptop, have a nice life. ”

      Some parents aren’t even as nice as this. I was bullied in junior high. My mother refused to sympathize, saying, (these were her actual words) “you wear a button that says ‘kick me’.”

      MaryK

      May 26, 2014 at 3:50 pm

  21. The only relevant fact about this case you you need to know:

    They moved to the United States from England when he was five, and two years later they got divorced.

    Everything else is trivia. Just ask any Catholic from 1960. Or Tammy Wynette. Nothing more to see here, move along. There are asbergers and neurotics etc from stable families that don’t get into trouble. On the other hand there entire cultures that practice such short-term marriages and get similar results.

    A few incidents from just a couple of years from just one city:

    Detroit police: 7 injured in riverfront shooting

    4 shot in Detroit after dispute over tax refund

    4 Injured At Detroit Bar In Drive-By Shooting


    Three dead, six hurt in attack on Detroit gambling room

    9 people shot at Detroit barbershop

    At least 15 shootings in Oakland, Livingston and Ingham counties between Tuesday and Thursday are believed to be connected.

    Toad

    May 26, 2014 at 12:14 pm

  22. Let us not forget that Elliot envisioned a sex-less future where only a few females remained for mere breeding purposes.

    He grew sick and disgusted with himself and his homo-sexual habits and finally self-annihilated after a murderous rage much like the vaunted jihadist.

    thordaddy

    May 26, 2014 at 12:33 pm

    • What heterosexual male ever envisions a sex-less future? Much less one with few females. Most think more along the lines of this conversation between Dr. Strangelove and President Muffley regarding life underground post nuclear holocaust:

      “Well I… I would hate to have to decide who stays up and who goes down.”

      “Well, that would not be necessary Mr. President. It could easily be accomplished with a computer. And a computer could be set and programmed to accept factors from youth, health, sexual fertility, intelligence, and a cross section of necessary skills. Of course it would be absolutely vital that our top government and military men be included to foster and impart the required principles of leadership and tradition. Naturally, they would breed prodigiously, eh? There would be much time, and little to do. But ah with the proper breeding techniques and a ratio of say, ten females to each male, I would guess that they could then work their way back to the present gross national product within say, twenty years.”
      – Dr Strangelove & President Merkin Muffley

      Curle

      May 26, 2014 at 4:35 pm

  23. You’re right Cly…

    Miscegenation is playing with fire and self-annihilation is almost always a consequence especially if the “white” father harbors NO imperial sexual desires.

    thordaddy

    May 26, 2014 at 12:36 pm

    • I’m sure the liberals will love him for this.

      JS

      May 26, 2014 at 1:09 pm

  24. Thank you for posting this blog. I also went to Pinecrest for school and camp. It was the worst experience of my life. Kids are cruel especially in private schools. Middle school is a time where your confidence is shaped. My experience at Pinecrest was traumatizing to say the least. Elliott’s story brings up a lot of old scars. In a lot of ways I can relate to his pain. I just wish he could’ve seen that it gets better. It didn’t have to end this way. It makes me sad for him. People, bullying is a serious thing. It happens at crucial ages that makes a person who they are. Kids are evil, but they don’t have to be. Teach your kids to treat people better. It starts at home but it should be enforced by the schools.

    Liora

    May 26, 2014 at 12:54 pm

    • Liora,

      Are the kids at Pinecrest drawn from the local neighborhood? Do they attend from grade school to high school? Are the parents friends and neighbors?

      map

      May 26, 2014 at 2:24 pm

  25. Growth hormones for someone who grew to be 5’8 or 5’9? This seems to me above average for asian and latino males. (The averages for the US I find are between 5’8 and 5’11…) Hormones probably would have messed up this guy big time and made him even worse. He was reasonably good looking, but probably to messed up mentally by now. I agree that schooling and environment may have been a huge detrimental factor, overall a somewhat tragic case (as probably most of them are). It seems that most US high schools are living hell for non-athletic males (unless they are extrovert in other ways), but there could have be some private school where he would have been able to develop some skills (maybe programming instead of gaming) to gain more self-confidence or have been coached to become more confident.

    nomen nescio

    May 26, 2014 at 12:57 pm

    • Is that how talk he grew?

      Another thought occurs to me: had his parents been able to predict he’d be a late bloomer physically, they could have kept him out of school for a year or two when he was little so he would be at less of a disadvantage physically.

      Dave Pinsen

      May 26, 2014 at 2:20 pm

    • Given the amount of stress/cortisol he was under for years because of the bullying you can bet he had some kind of testosterone deficiency even at 22 and of course chronically elevated cortisol levels. Cortisol and testosterone are antagonistic hormones (that explains why he’s effeminate) and high cortisol is a turnoff for women:

      http://www.livescience.com/10073-women-prefer-chill-guys.html

      Maybe it got to the point that his pheromones were repelling women. He had been in a downward spiral for years.

      Martin

      May 26, 2014 at 10:52 pm

  26. I am a beta male. Characteristics:

    1. Engaged to an Asian girl
    2. Have only had sexual contact with 5-6 women in my life
    3. Talk to average looking women easily, get nervous when interacting with hot women
    4. Pursuing a PhD in engineering. The more alpha path would be BS -> job -> good MBA -> value transference career
    5. Had no interest in joining a fraternity
    6. Ran varsity cross country and track. Definitely beta. The omega thing to do is sit inside and play WoW.

    Rodgers was NOT beta. He was a mentally ill omega freak that who happened to grow up in the Beverly Hills. A beta male might flourish under the tutelage of an alpha male Hollywood father. An omega male is incapable of this, hence the shooting spree.

    PoorGradStudent

    May 26, 2014 at 1:02 pm

    • According the CDC:

      “Median number of female sexual partners in lifetime, for men 25-44 years of age, 2006-20081: 6.1”

      I hearby delcare you higher beta.

      ice hole

      May 26, 2014 at 2:11 pm

      • Umm, I’m omega, and I’ve had 8 partners — and turned down one married woman. I’ve also had a boatload of escorts. Betas tend to get into long-term relationships early, which lowers their numbers.

        CamelCaseRob

        May 27, 2014 at 12:45 am

  27. Hypothetically, what would his life would have been like if he had an IQ of 135. Certainly more intelligent people are isolated, but in this case, the detrimental effect of an enhanced IQ would likely be marginal. This intelligence would at least give him some intellectual competence and allow him to retreat and amuse himself by pursuing a demanding intellectual interest, even though he would still lack the motivation and conscientiousness to succeed academically, but he would at least be able to distinguish himself among his peers, even if it might have like a 1.6 STDV advantage among them as I assume his peers are above average. I actually think my intelligence IN COMBINATION WITH my odd social mannerisms (while also being sympathetic and kind) give me an autistic charm that prevents me from being totally humiliated.

    This is one of Lion’s gems. He truly is getting everything correct about Elliot Rodger’s psychological condition. If people are willing to slap an “Asperger’s” label too easily, it truly devalues the label, and for those who have some pride in their “Asperger” identity, they should be repulsed by this, not because of the label’s association with a spree killer, but due to the inflation of Asperger’s syndrome label.

    I posted this about Asperger syndrome:

    For those who have a more “severe” form of autism or Asperger syndrome, it would seem that the diagnostic inflation would erode their sense of identity and whatever value the “label” may possess. Admitted, there is much value to the label, and it comes with no strings attached, that is no haloperidol, olanzapine, lithium, lamotrigine, MAOIs. or prozac, drugs that can exhibit serious side effects. .

    He doesn’t appear to have Asperger’s syndrome; while he may be socially awkward, he does not have obsessive, solitary non-social interests nor does he prefer solitary activities most of the time. Autistics generally have ability to process social information (this is not related to g since most people do this effortless and unconsciously) and perceive non-verbal cues. He seems more narcissistic and had almost no capacity to be sympathetic or empathetic. Furthermore, his voice has little affect.


    I think his has at least on IQ of 110 if he was independently able to do online research on risperidone and refuse to take it. But he may just rely on subjective testimonies of its horrible side-effects and that would not necessarily indicate him analyzing the risks and benefits.

    Latias

    May 26, 2014 at 2:02 pm

  28. I doubt he was taking SSRIs, but did the autobiography mention them?

    Latias

    May 26, 2014 at 2:25 pm

    • No mention of SSRI’s.

      Rosenmops

      May 26, 2014 at 4:20 pm

  29. Mr. O’Sphere, can you add any more comment on his revealed relationship with his father? Did they ever do things together? Did he admire his father? The only comment I see is that he saw his father as someone similar the alpha males poon slayers that he claimed to hate.

    DeFactoAnonymous

    May 26, 2014 at 3:15 pm

  30. Does anyone else think it’s odd that as obsessed with sex as he claimed to be, and as violent as he turned out to be, his revenge plan didn’t involve raping anyone? He fantasized about brutal torture, but did not include sex.

    Sheila Tone

    May 26, 2014 at 4:36 pm

    • Too much anxiety to rape a woman, furthermore given how physically weak he was she might have beaten him up.

      Why can’t you simply accept that you can’t at all relate to his anxieties and his despair over his situation and move on? Most of the nerdy male readers DO understand the emotional place where he was. I don’t understand why you need to think his crime was caused by repressed homosexuality.

      • “…furthermore given how physically weak he was she might have beaten him up.” He had guns, remember?

        “Why can’t you simply accept that you can’t at all relate to his anxieties and his despair over his situation and move on?”

        Why can’t you simply accept that just because he says things that validate your own views of the ills of women’s sexual rejection, he’s not necessarily correct or honest? You’re sharp, Lion, but your logic is vulnerable when it comes to sex. You’ve got some theories you’re determined to defend against all evidence. You feel sorry for him because of his introversion, and so do a lot of your male readers — but notice that no one here writes in a tone anything like his. I’ve always said you sound exactly like what you claim to be.

        Oh, and the gay guys you’re seeing in Hell’s Kitchen are out and proud, going for dinner with their mates. No one is saying this guy was homosexually active. He was an angry closet case.

        Sheila Tone

        May 26, 2014 at 5:12 pm

    • He was consumed with something, but it wasn’t sex with women.

      Here are some things a guy wanting a relationship with women but full of social anxieties related to women might do?
      1) go to strip clubs;
      2) go on dating sites;
      3) go to bars.

      Here are things a repressed gay guy wanting to show the world how under-appreciated he is might do:
      1) make youtube videos talking about how fab you are;
      2) obsess over luxury items;
      3) call other men brutes.

      He’s just mad that no women, probably including his mother, stepped up to save him from his gayness. As if women served no other function in life than to save men from their desire for other men.

      Curle

      May 26, 2014 at 7:09 pm

      • Yes, great observations, Curle.

        Sheila Tone

        May 27, 2014 at 12:18 am

      • Although I think this gay theory is crazy, I do think you bring up a good point about dating sites. I suspect he did try that at some point and maybe that will be uncovered in a few days. If he didn’t that would certainly bring up new questions, but I don’t think the answer to every unknown question is, “gay.”

        Mike Street Station

        May 27, 2014 at 8:57 pm

    • Yes I think that is very odd. In the ideal world he imagines no one is having sex including himself. You would think that in his imaginary world he would be having lots of Sex. He seemed to find the actual sex act repulsive .

      If he was gay he might have been repressing it because of ideas he picked up from his non- Western relatives, including his mother , grandmother and step mother. He had several extended vacations in Morocco staying with his step mother’s relatives. He may have heard something about gay sex from the three boys his step mother’s dad adopted. They were about his age and he played with them. His last visit to Morocco was forced on him. He tried to run away before the plane left but failed. After a week in Morocco he called his mother and had a huge meltdown on the phone. She flew to Morocco and brought him home.

      Rosenmops

      May 26, 2014 at 7:50 pm

      • Yes, and even though in his ideal world he is the dictator of Earth, instead of getting a harem of babes, he wants to use that power to destroy sex, or at least sex with women! Who did he imagine would take care of the babies — he didn’t seem at all paternal himself. He wanted sex, allegedly, but didn’t seem to aspire to marriage or fatherhood.

        Sheila Tone

        May 27, 2014 at 12:31 am

    • Elliott wanted to be sincerely loved and desired by a woman. A raped woman would just revile and loath him even more. Of course, his killing spree would result in all of mankind reviling and loathing him, but by that time he was beyond a psychological brink and was no longer guided by his deepest and most cherished positive desires; instead he was guided by the overwhelming pain of envy.

      Elliott was not homosexual in the sense of being turned on sexually by dudes. His animal instincts are undeniably as straight as an arrow. He *was* effeminate in the sense of his extreme need for romantic affection and his absolute fixation on the romantic relationships (lack thereof) of his life. He had no interest in developing mastery in a worldly trade or a technical topic, which is a masculine gender trait (the logical extreme of which is Aspergersian obsession to the complete neglect of relationships).

      Elliott’s effeminacy comes from his fixation on relationships. Perhaps this feminine trait in Elliott is what Sheila Tone is empathizing with (assuming Sheila Tone is a woman). Elliott’s effeminacy in this regard is in fact so extreme, and so outstanding, that it leads many to falsely assume he is gay. Meanwhile nerdy heterosexual male readers (including myself) recognize and therefore are capable of empathizing with his (frustrated) *hetero*sexuality, even if we are morbidly fascinated by his utter lack of ability to self-improve.

      Simon

      May 27, 2014 at 2:07 am

  31. It turns out that he was living with an Asian roommate whom he killed during his rampage. Definitely no alpha who could show him the ropes in life.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/weihan-david-wang-wanted-move-out-isla-vista-apartment-elliot-n114806

    Why would he live with an Asian guy, yet write disparagingly about them, seems a bit odd?

    He was probably frustrated that he was forced to be part of a “beta” circle.

    JS

    May 26, 2014 at 5:29 pm

  32. PS Lion: I’ve got no emotional investment in labeling Elliot gay. In fact, it undercuts him as the perfect, wet-dream example of my biggest bugaboo in life: Men who are angry because women out of their league reject them. I *want* to believe him. But he just isn’t believable.

    Sheila Tone

    May 26, 2014 at 5:35 pm

  33. I’d agree that Rodger didn’t have a severe mental illness, but I’m annoyed with the way the left is treating this. Because Rodger was an -ist, his mental health is irrelevant to them. If he’d committed the exact same crime and his anger had been primarily directed toward men who could get laid rather than women who ignored him, his mental health would be an issue that “we need to have a serious conversation about.”

    The bottom line is that Rodger had psychological issues that contributed to this murder spree, and those psychological issues were a far greater factor in his crimes than any “manosphere” stuff he might have been reading.

    Robert

    May 26, 2014 at 5:46 pm

  34. The connection to Sarah Palin is still unclear.

    Glengarry

    May 26, 2014 at 6:08 pm

  35. LOTB,

    You did not mention that he finished high school before turning 18. These days, most parents would have “red-shirted” their son for a year so that a kid who was going to be short relative to his classmates would also not be the youngest in each year group.

    superdestroyer

    May 26, 2014 at 6:16 pm

  36. …and don’t get the help that they need…

    you’re assuming there is help to be had.

    if people need help someone will sell it whether it’s help or not.

    jorge videla

    May 26, 2014 at 6:49 pm

    • I’m curious what you mean by this?

      Chris

      May 30, 2014 at 6:34 pm

  37. “If a man grows up without knowing of the existence of women, there will be no desire for sex. Sexuality will completely cease to exist.”

    Whoa, talk about deliberately ignoring gayness!

    He also said a lot of racist stuff against blacks and Hispanics — not about their behavior, but things like “ugly” and “inferior.” That seems hard to believe from a privileged entertainment guy growing up in Encino. He really seems as if he were trying to be over-the-top and provocative, rather than sincere.

    Sheila Tone

    May 26, 2014 at 6:53 pm

    • “He also said a lot of racist stuff against blacks and Hispanics.”

      If Lefty orthodoxy is to be believed (which it shouldn’t be) he ‘learned’ all of this at home or from the culture, but his white father is a likely blame target. Worth contemplating is what was said behind closed doors by the Chinese and Moroccan mothers. Having lived around lots of Asians (where whites were a minority) I know what they say when in a socially protected circumstances. I laughed in LS when a Japanese girl gave a big Martin Luther King day speech posturing as a fellow minority who knew the sting of racism. I found it a little ironic considering the views of my former Japanese colleagues concerning Mr. King’s co-ethnics. Comments that would have made Jefferson Davis blush.

      America is a funny place.

      Curle

      May 26, 2014 at 9:34 pm

      • It’s probably from his biological mother – Chinese side. Chinese aren’t really fond of Islamics and would view Moroccans similar to what Whites and Asians think of NAMs. And Moroccans aren’t on the same level with the overseas Lebanese and Iranians, 2 very successful Middle Eastern groups, who are viewed with “honorary” White status here in America. Moroccans are a much lower tier group on the socioeconomic totem pole.

        JS

        May 26, 2014 at 10:47 pm

      • It’s probably from his biological mother Chinese side. Chinese aren’t really fond of Islamics, similar to what Whites and Asians perceive NAMs. Moroccans are a much lower tier – socioeconomic group, nowhere near the levels of the successful overseas Middle Eastern groups such as the Lebanese and Iranians, who are viewed with honorary White status here in America.

        JS

        May 26, 2014 at 10:51 pm

  38. …a vicious circle at work…

    this first dawned on me when i was waiting for the bus late at night. i heard some guy talking to himself. he wasn’t “thinking out loud”, he was talking to himself…in the bad way. then i noticed this guy was a thalidomide case.

    hereditist retards would say, “aha! thalidomide also causes schizophrenia!”

    hardly.

    the way the most collectivist society in the history of the world, american society, works:

    if there’s any difference one is shunned. the difference can be physical. the resulting social isolation causes at best depression or addiction of some kind. at worst it causes scz.

    jorge videla

    May 26, 2014 at 6:54 pm

  39. and “sociopaths” score extremely high on the “extraversion” factor.

    being an extreme of a distribution is not being sick!

    but it is (sub)human nature to think so. as a result there’s a diagnosis “ideopathic shortness”. this means:

    your parents want you to be tall. you’re not. but the doctor(that is, businessman) has to diagnose you with some disease in order to prescribe the hgh or whatever.

    jorge videla

    May 26, 2014 at 7:10 pm

  40. Beautiful work, Lion.

    rivsdiary

    May 26, 2014 at 8:49 pm

  41. This may sound really silly to some people, but I think Elliot could really benefited from having a dog.

    rivsdiary

    May 26, 2014 at 8:59 pm

    • That’s not silly at all.

      Samson J.

      May 26, 2014 at 9:12 pm

    • I really think he would benefit more from smoking weed than risperidone. Risperidone can fuck you up.

      Latias

      May 26, 2014 at 9:34 pm

    • Concur.

      Curle

      May 26, 2014 at 9:41 pm

    • Could it be his stepmom? Muslims don’t want dogs around. She could have been brought up with that mentality.

      JS

      May 26, 2014 at 9:43 pm

    • He mentions at one point that his father got a dog called “Lucky” for his sister, since she had been begging for a dog. He didn’t seem to have any interest in the dog himself. Frankly I’m afraid he would have been cruel to a dog.

      Rosenmops

      May 27, 2014 at 12:00 am

      • I am seeing two schools of thought on Elliot:

        1. Driven to Madness (DTM)
        2. Natural Born Killer (NBK)

        I haven’t done a full quantitative analysis of all the comments, but I feel that many men on this blog believe in the DTM theory, and most of the women believe in the NBK theory.

        rivsdiary

        May 27, 2014 at 7:50 am

      • Even psychopaths aren’t natural-born killers, because many psychopaths used their personality trait to advance in corporate America rather than kill people.

        Elliott isn’t even a psychopath or a schizophrenic. (And they say that even most schizophrenics are harmless.)

  42. Have you noticed that people have started confusing “wary” and “leary” and coming up with “weary”?

    CamelCaseRob

    May 26, 2014 at 11:42 pm

  43. It will be a wonderful day when fully human-like sexbots (really, companion bots) are developed.

    CamelCaseRob

    May 27, 2014 at 12:53 am

    • Or an anti-viagra – prozac pill that inhibits sexual urges. Sexbots are too freaky for most people in our current generations.

      JS

      May 27, 2014 at 4:00 pm

  44. Lion, thank you for the information on neuroticism. I did not understand the term to be so specific; I just thought it was a generalization for various quirks and maladjustments. One of my sons is diagnosed with ADHD, but I suspect neurotic probably fits him better, and he probably got it from my side of the family. Unfortunately, there’s no good drug treatment for it.

    Sheila Tone

    May 27, 2014 at 1:03 am

    • So you think “neuroticism” is so specific? You do not know anything about psychology if you are unaware of the big five model. Clearly he was at least 2 STDV more neurotic than normal; he did not have a “healthy” level or neuroticism that made him shy and timid, but one that made him so socially dysfunctional even though he had good looks and a nice ride.

      And if there is no good drug treatment for it, then do not treat him with drugs. Period.

      Latias

      May 27, 2014 at 4:42 pm

  45. The continued wussification of America…

    This kid’s only real malfunction was that he had no game. Now that he’s gone he’s got groupies, but you can bet all the same girls regarded him as a creep when he was alive. Putting girls on a pedestal will do that.

    I figured talk here would be all about beta male rage. Maybe, but my point is that it’s not a zero sum game. Nobody has to be beta — we can all be alpha. Because it’s not really about triumphing over other males as much as it’s about sealing the deal with eager female partners who are just looking for a man they can respect – short and skinny, even ugly, are not obstacles for guys with the right attitudetoward women.

    Rick

    May 27, 2014 at 3:33 pm

    • His real malfunction was extreme shyness, and doubly extremely shy around girls. Yet he believed that the most important validation of his worth as a human being was to have a pretty girlfriend.

      • An inferiority complex with high standards will do just that.

        JS

        May 27, 2014 at 4:56 pm

      • “Shyness” makes it sound like he never approached girls. This guy was clearly rejected plenty of times, which means he approached plenty of girls. The question is why he was rejected, which isn’t because he was shy but probably because they thought he was a creep.

        And the real validation of this is the cult following he’s getting among young girls and gay males who see his picture now. It’s not as if he just never met any of those people when he was alive. He met — and was apparently rejected by — lots of girls. I gather they all thought he was more than cute enough when they first met him, but there must have been something about the way he acted or spoke that turned them off.

        I don’t know exactly what that was, but in keeping with your beta male ideas, I’m pretty sure it’s just run-of-the-mill “can’t get laid”. He likely didn’t flirt, showered them with compliments, professed his love and all other kinds of wussy nonsense that makes girls run for the hills. (I’m looking at this as separate from his obvious violent sociopathy, but it’s possible they were one and the same thing.)

        My problem with your “beta male” theories is that the world’s not zero-sum. It isn’t like “beta” males don’t get laid because the “alpha” males have a monopoly on the girls. What you call alpha males is just guys who still act like men, while beta males are guys who act like Gloria Steinem, Emily Post and their own mothers tell them to. Start acting like an alpha and you’ll get more action, not from some other alpha’s girlfriend, but from one of the millions of frustrated women who are holding out for a real man.

        Rick

        May 28, 2014 at 8:44 am

      • You haven’t read the autobiography. He never approached any girls, ever. He was too shy, too afraid, too socially awkward. Although if he ever did muster the courage to do so, he would have been perceived as creepy because of his great fear and inexperience.

        Every rare occasion in which he ever talked to a girl between middle school and the time he died is documented in the autobiography. He talked to Maddy, his childhood friend (and daughter of a famous musician, which he didn’t mention in the autobiography), he talked to a female “coach”, he once meekly said “hi” to a girl he passed who ignored him. I think that was about it.

      • “Every rare occasion in which he ever talked to a girl between middle school and the time he died is documented in the autobiography.”

        You actually believe that, huh?

        Rick

        May 28, 2014 at 9:01 pm

      • Yes, I do.

  46. My pet diagnosis was narcissistic personality disorder. You make a good point about neuroticism, though. I haven’t changed my mind, but you have made me realize that the best diagnosis is perhaps BOTH narcissistic personality disorder AND neuroticism. That would explain all the facts excellently. There are plenty of narcissists who aren’t socially isolated, and there are plenty of neurotic people who aren’t grandiosely deluded; but Elliot was both, and the two things conspired excellently to drive him to murder.

    SebZear

    May 28, 2014 at 1:35 pm

    • Never in his life did he ever present himself as narcisisstic. And the majority of his autobiography is about how he’s a big loser.

      That’s NOT narcissistic. At least not anywhere near the extreme to be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder. A few paragraphs of boasting, and acting in a video presenting himself as how he’d imagine an arch-villian from a comic book would behave in his situation, does not make him a narcissist.

      If he truly had narcissistic personality disorder, he wouldn’t have been so shy, because he would have believed that people WANTED to hear from him. A lot of shyness is about the belief that you are not worthy of social interaction.

      You also may be confusing his emotional immaturity with narcissism. He clearly had the emotionality of someone a lot younger than him. For example, asking his mother to marry someone rich for his benefit seems like an emotionally immature request, but I don’t think that it demonstrates grandiosity.

      He also really enjoyed flying first class and eating the most expensive foods, but a lot of other people seem to enjoy this as well, and it’s not normally considered a mental illness. He displays some emotional immaturity in the way he writes about it. Emotional immaturity is definitely a theme in his autobiograpy, and that’s something I attribute to an extremely high-Neuroticism personality plus isolation from peer groups where he would have learned better “emotional intelligence.”

      • re: emotional maturity, I suspect that Asians (and small, nerdy whites) have slower development than other groups. Asians have a slightly longer gestation and I believe they tend to hit puberty later. Contrast with blacks, with significantly shorter gestation, earlier baby physical milestones, and earlier puberty. Emotional development probably follows a similar path.

        anon

        May 28, 2014 at 2:03 pm

      • If he truly had narcissistic personality disorder, he wouldn’t have been so shy, because he would have believed that people WANTED to hear from him. A lot of shyness is about the belief that you are not worthy of social interaction.

        Narcissists tend to show alpha tendencies of extroversion and confidence when combined with their self centered behavior. If overdone, that person could be like Elliot where people would avoid him, but unlike him they wouldn’t resign to a state of despair and modify their behavior.

        Your idea of suggesting young men to go into prestigious and high paying – value transference careers is a recipe for narcissism. But narcissism can be good, if it makes a person productive and everyone else is in a happy state from his productiveness.

        JS

        May 28, 2014 at 2:15 pm

    • If Rodger was functionally sane and not truly delusional, he may have been a “disaffiliated” or “cheated” sociopath. View the useful descriptions of sociopath types at this link: http://www.ehow.com/about_5371687_types-sociopaths.html

      Saskatoon Sammy

      May 28, 2014 at 3:26 pm

  47. Lion…

    I don’t doubt that you have put forth your best faith effort in analyzing this event, but combining yours with all the other analyses, it is clear that the true cause of this murderous act of self-annihilation will not be discussed. Elliot was neither truly virginal nor involuntarily celibate. He was a sexual deviant in mind and body. There is no right/left paradigm anymore. There is only the belief in radical sexual autonomy as “our” “highest value.” In other words, a super-duper majority of the West believe wholeheartedly in the “right” to “love, f$&k, screw” whomever one pleases. This is the root of sexual deviancy and the surest path to self-annihilation. It is also the manner in which to usher in a relatively bloodless “default elite.”

    thordaddy

    May 28, 2014 at 6:14 pm

  48. […] blogger “Lion of the Blogosphere” has written a powerful, condensed summary of Rodger’s fairly coherent manifesto/autobiography, which paints a disturbing picture of a […]


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