Esteban Santiago, Puerto Rican Muslim?
It has been reported that Esteban Santiago, in November 2016, walked into an FBI office in Anchorage claiming that he heard voices in his head telling him to fight for ISIS and was sent to a psychiatric hospital.
Internet rumors are that he posted on an Islamic jihadi forum in 2007.
I mentioned back in my old blog the possibility that Islamic missionaries could convert the Hispanics. We see this happening. If you recall, Farook, the terrorist from San Benardino, had a Hispanic friend who converted to Islam and who helped him. (Although I also pointed out that the Hispanic friend was a loser with a low IQ who was manipulated by Farook’s more dominant personality.)
* * *
How do we know that Islam isn’t the true religion, and that the voice in Santiago’s head wasn’t Allah himself?
Lion of the Blogosphere 
If the voice in Santiago’s head is Allah then who’s the voice in my head???
destructure
January 6, 2017 at 7:06 PM
Captain Kangaroo. Oh wait, you’re too young. Never mind – that’s the voice in MY head.
gothamette
January 6, 2017 at 8:59 PM
Great. Just what we need is a new way for Latinos to get even more anti-Semitic than they already are.
Note that Mexico’s Muslim population is under 10,000. That’s just 0.007%. This problem is coming from us and being forced on the Latinos. It’s Bush-WASP America’s panting ache to import as many Muslims as possible in the wake of 9-11 that is creating more terror and ruining our Puerto-Ricans.
owentt
January 6, 2017 at 7:08 PM
As an Hispanic I have to agree as to what the Muslims are doing to our Hispanic population and have seen it first hand. The idiot president O is soft on immigration and many are coming through the Mexican border. I am familiar with in government for over 30 years.
Rogelio Quintanilla
January 8, 2017 at 1:33 PM
I mentioned back in my old blog the possibility that Islamic missionaries could convert the Hispanics. We see this happening.
Islam is attractive to only the most psychologically disturbed Hispanics like this shooter and the collaborator with the San Benardino cell.
But it doesn’t take many of them to spark a brand new media spectacle.
How do we know that Islam isn’t the true religion, and that the voice in Santiago’s head wasn’t Allah himself?
Because a true god would have higher quality followers.
The Undiscovered Jew
January 6, 2017 at 7:18 PM
Islam is attractive to only the most psychologically disturbed
Hispanicshuman.Fixed it for you,
Rosenmops
January 6, 2017 at 11:41 PM
Right. This guy was a sick, broken puppy. Guys like this plus proximity to guns is a bad mix.
gothamette
January 7, 2017 at 3:10 PM
Why do commenters constantly use Islam as a reference source for mass shootings? Islam or not, plenty of individuals in America have a combination of low intelligence and low impulse control coupled with mental illness to commit the kind of atrocities we see in the news. This guy served in the Iraq war in his early 20s. It must have left a scar on him. Our military and police force attract proles/nams/the dumbest of imbeciles.
JS
January 8, 2017 at 11:06 AM
Fair enough point.
There’s a reason force is the only way Islam can gain converts over large territories – no one sane willingly converts to it.
The Undiscovered Jew
January 7, 2017 at 12:00 PM
Don’t you mean any psychologically disturbed person because there are plenty of white muslim converts.
John Sand
January 7, 2017 at 7:35 PM
The context of the discussion started with the attraction of Islam to Hispanics. White converts to Islam are also sure to be very psychologically abnormal.
The Undiscovered Jew
January 8, 2017 at 11:23 AM
I’m a lawyer who occasionally takes public defender appointments in criminal cases in a Rust Belt small town.
I represented a Puerto Rican guy in a domestic violence battery case. The guy was in jail throughout the whole case. He told me at one point he was looking into Islam (being proselytized?), but the last time I talked into him he had veered into Evangelical Christianity.
Prisons and jails are fertile recruiting grounds for all kinds of ideologies.
Steve
January 6, 2017 at 7:26 PM
lolwut. That last line is peak Lion.
IHTG
January 6, 2017 at 7:31 PM
Why do you laugh? It’s a superb epistemological question, that will take you quite far if you let it.
SJ, Esquire (formerly Samson J)
January 7, 2017 at 5:58 PM
I remember a South American commentator on Lawrence Auster’s blog pointing out how similar Arab and South American societies are in some ways. The decline of Catholicism and the resulting collapse of social order and family life certainly provide the necessary gap in the market and motivation for a Hispanic Islam (Hislam? Ispanic?) Nowadays it also has the appeal, like Communism in the last century, of being the big current movement of anti-Western and anti-colonial (ie anti white) reaction. So matybe you are right.
Only upper-class whites are intelligent and socially robust enough to cope with the corrosive effects that the freedoms of liberalism brings. Which is why of course they are such high-status opinions.
prolier than thou
January 6, 2017 at 7:53 PM
“Only upper-class whites are intelligent and socially robust enough to cope with the corrosive effects that the freedoms of liberalism brings.”
Upper classes are like Typhoid Mary. They carry the bacteria and infect others. But they don’t usually present symptoms of the disease themselves.
destructure
January 6, 2017 at 8:56 PM
You hear this a lot, but I don’t think it’s true that even high-class, high IQ whites are able to cope with liberal freedom. They deal with it *better*, sure – but they’re dying out, not breeding. That’s a symptom of disease.
SJ, Esquire (formerly Samson J)
January 7, 2017 at 5:56 PM
“Only upper-class whites are intelligent and socially robust enough to cope with the corrosive effects that the freedoms of liberalism brings. ”
Sometimes I think that I need religion. But if I were rich, I’d probably feel different.
gothamette
January 6, 2017 at 9:00 PM
Given the strong Islamic influence on the southern regions of Spain, where most of the New World Spaniards were descended from, one can see a connection.
For god’s sake, not one person has pointed out that the expression “I hope so” in Spanish is Ojala, which is god willing in Arabic.
JS
January 6, 2017 at 9:06 PM
Jose Padilla.
JayMan
January 6, 2017 at 8:54 PM
Religious people must hear voices much more often than regular people: they’re trained to expect to hear them as part of prayer, inspiration, etc.
Anthony
January 6, 2017 at 9:35 PM
Anecdote: A couple years back when I lived in Jackson Heights, Queens, there was a guy once on Roosevelt Avenue with a table set up trying to interest the Spanish speakers in Islam.
Deke DaSilva
January 6, 2017 at 9:45 PM
Muslims try to attract SWPLs believe or not.
Every year, there is a Muslim awareness event in Madison Square Park, Manhattan, the same park, where SWPL families play and eat at Shake Shack. The real irony and hypocrisy is that most SWPLs just ignore them.
However, if Muslims were smart and very HBD aware, they would have sent Bosnian/Albanian Muslims or Turks to engage in conversation and this would receive a better reception, because their phenotype is more in line with Northern Europeans than dark skinned Pakistanis.
JS
January 7, 2017 at 10:42 AM
At Hunter College the Muslims have a card table set up with a sign that says, “Muslims Love Jesus!”. The table is manned by several students, smiling idiotically. Always two guys and one girl. Overflowing with love.
What’s gonna happen when this country has 25 million Muslims?
gothamette
January 8, 2017 at 9:30 PM
Middle Class Whites should be more concern about East Asians in America who have less to offer than Islam and are greater in numbers when it comes to their neighborhoods. Non-Asian minorities might capitalize on affirmative action, but East Asians have displaced the functional White middle class in the most viable of cities, when it comes to affordable real estate, which I think is worse. Rosenmops tells you that this is happening in British Columbia, and they have gobbled up real estate on other side of Canada in Ontario. In the United States they have invaded California and inflated its real estate bubble, the better areas of the Midwest, and Manhattan and the NYC area at large, have gotten more expensive not only because of SWPLs, but because of these people who are willing to pay more, with nothing to show forth.
JS
January 8, 2017 at 10:39 PM
I grew up in Jackson Heights and I still walk through the neighborhood every now and then. Both Mohammedans and Communists set up tables and try to recruit Hispanics.
BTW, Jackson Heights was once a very nice neighborhood, but like many other places throughout the country it has deteriorated greatly courtesy of the 1965 Immigration Act and liberalism.
Lewis Medlock
January 7, 2017 at 3:39 PM
You need to head out to Manhattan when there is a Muslim parade/festival that takes place annually in a park where SWPLs and their families hang out. It’s fun seeing the irony/hypocrisy of liberals avoiding these people whom they love at a distance, as long they don’t encroach into their backyards, because they make lovely subjects of universalism.
JS
January 8, 2017 at 11:46 AM
To be accurate, the friend was Filipino, not “Hispanic,” though of course flips do have Hispanic names, they’re Asians.
Marty
January 6, 2017 at 10:18 PM
Islam is growing in the Philippines. Look at Indonesia with its majority msulim popialtion, which is the largest of any nation in the world. People of many ethbocies are attracted to Islam, and it’s the fastest growing religion in the world. I wouldn’t be surprised if global Sharia were implemented in a few decades.
Bobo
January 7, 2017 at 12:08 AM
Commenters here discount HBD, when it comes to Islam.
It’s not that the religion is the problem, it’s the people who represent them:
Bosnian Students seen here with American Students:
Your run in mill 3rd world-low IQ savages that one finds in the Anglosphere:
JS
January 7, 2017 at 4:46 PM
“To be accurate, the friend was Filipino, not “Hispanic,” though of course flips do have Hispanic names, they’re Asians”
A friend who lived in the Phillipines described them to me as ‘the Mexicans of Asia’. Again, I can see what he means.
prolier than thou
January 7, 2017 at 3:05 AM
The PI were administratively part of Mexico under the Spanish Empire.
Robert
January 7, 2017 at 1:48 PM
Over the years, I’ve lived near a few US military bases; as such, there always seems to be a disproportionately large share of female Filipinas in these areas. They’re all attractive and married to former or current White military guys, and Americanized. They must meet them while stationed at US military bases in the Philippines.
E. Rekshun
January 7, 2017 at 2:12 PM
I’ve been an “Islam watcher” since the early 80’s. I had a roommate while in grad school who had spent much time in Latin America (he was anglo) in 1990. I asked him about the possibility of islam being able to “jump cultural boundries”, much like communism in mid 20th century, asking specifically if it could spread into Latin America. He was of the opinion that this would never happen because most Mexicans and Latin Americans consider the Muslim world people to be losers.
Abelard Lindsey
January 6, 2017 at 11:55 PM
Mexico has a large population of prosperous and influential Syrian Christians that have deep cultural memories of the cost of coexistence with Islam. The richest man in the world, Carlos Slim, is among them. 0.007% of Mexicans are Muslims and many consider that to be too much already.
owentt
January 7, 2017 at 2:26 AM
I try to be a fair and rational person when observing the different groups of people. Most certainly, Islam has taken on a much violent-reactionary role since the dawn of European Colonialism. Wahhabism, which evolved under this period, is responsible for much of the bloodshed in the Islamic world. In terms of high culture, even the commentaries written by later scholars of the Islamic world seem to reflect this narrative, where as many medieval Islamic scholars were debating if Islam was even useful or practical for society.
The real problem in the West lies not with Islam, but 3rd world primitives and prole Whites with Stockholm syndrome.
JS
January 7, 2017 at 2:31 PM
According to Wikipedia, both of Carlos Slim’s parents were Lebanese Catholics. There’s nothing Muslim about him.
Roli
January 7, 2017 at 5:31 PM
By the end of the 90’s I actually came to the conclusion that Islam, despite terrorist events such as 9/11, is not an expansionist threat to the rest of the world because it does not have the popularity among the young people of the world that communism did in the 1950’s through 1970’s.
What most people today don’t realize is just how popular communism was among university students at the time. Communism was popular on university campus from Lima, Peru to Tokyo, Japan, from Berkeley California to Oxford, UK. It was everywhere. You simply do not see this scale of popularity of Islam among the global youth today.
Abelard Lindsey
January 7, 2017 at 12:01 AM
“What most people today don’t realize is just how popular communism was among university students at the time.”
Thanks to Soviet propaganda.
Lion of the Blogosphere
January 7, 2017 at 12:06 AM
Thanks to Soviet propaganda or thanks to Harvard propaganda?
(Carts, horses).
snorlaxwp
January 7, 2017 at 1:02 AM
No. Communism was popular long before Soviet propaganda and vastly exceeded what can be bought with subversive PR. Communism was just a deeply seductive but horribly destructive idea for intellectuals.
We are fortunate to live in a time when it is in decline.
owentt
January 7, 2017 at 2:29 AM
In decline? Our governments have become a lot closer to communist than they were 100 years ago.
Lion of the Blogosphere
January 7, 2017 at 9:46 AM
What most people today don’t realize is just how popular communism was among university students at the time.
Communism was always popular with Progressives since the latter began in the late 19th century. The FDR administration, including Roosevelt himself, was stacked from top to bottom with Progressive sympathizers of Communism. The only reason the Wilson and FDR era Progressives have a reputation for being the good “anti-Communist” liberals is because of a temporary conflict between Western Progressives and Stalinist Russia, lasting until the early 1970s, over how to divide the world after WWII.
And even despite Stalin’s post-war provocations, Truman initially had to drag the ruling pro-Communist Progressive wing of the Democratic party kicking and screaming into the Cold War.
The stupid, weed smoking college Communist sympathizers in the 1960s were simply pulling Progressivism back to its pro-Communist inclinations, which the protestors thought was original to themselves. But compared to the likes of Hopkins or Sinclair they were amateurs.
http://archive.org/stream/UptonSinclairOnTheSovietUnion/Upton-on-sovietUnion_djvu.txt
It is also true that I have been studying the problem of Russia as earnestly as I know how for twenty years. There have been few days during that period that I have not sought some new facts and pondered them. I have had many a heartache over the things which have happened in Russia— so different from what I hoped for. I watched Gorky all through this period, and I know how he suffered and how more than once he wavered. But in the end he made up his mind that the Soviet regime was the best hope for the workers of Russia, and that is my conclusion today.
The Undiscovered Jew
January 7, 2017 at 12:29 PM
thanks to capitalist propaganda following boxing day 91, it’s less popular today. but fewer and fewer are buying the jive, especially outside the US and its puppets. for the first time an avowed socialist was almost a major party nominee. podemos is spain’s second largest party. greece’s pm is from syriza.
the deutschbags are gonna turn club med red…oh believe me!…even if wilders, le pen, et al cause the eurozone to disintegrate…in the short term it’ll get even worse for the dagos…better for the reds.
all praise be to allah.
Vancouver! Vancouver! This is it!
January 7, 2017 at 9:55 PM
It wasn’t just Soviet propaganda. It was a promise of an egalitarian world that appealed to starry-eyed idealistic student, at least in the West. However, the 3rd student may have been tuned into the Soviet propaganda and the belief that communism would help to economically develop their countries. Communism was especially popular among Latin American youth (and still is to some extent).
Abelard Lindsey
January 8, 2017 at 12:57 PM
i knew a jewish girl from the ussr who’d immigrated to the US in the early 80s i’m guessing.
she knew. y’all don’t.
what did she know?
she knew that the american schools were just as suffused with propaganda for capitalism as the soviet schools were for communism.
if harvard were a commie redoubt why is greg mankiw professoring there? his students walked out of one of his lectures in protest.
over what?
over his just being a propagandist.
both “liberals” and “conservatives” in the US have become, or always were, conservative in that both accept whatever narrative they’ve inherited, are unaware that things could be otherwise than they are, or point blank dismiss any evidence that their worldview may be false. yet both the contemporary “conservative” and “liberal” narratives are new, neither is conservative in any historical sense. if trump’s political sense is as supernatural as it appears to be, it is very likely he will be remembered as the greatest president ever. why? because he is NOT a conservative in the aforementioned sense.
Vancouver! Vancouver! This is it!
January 8, 2017 at 4:27 PM
‘she knew that the american schools were just as suffused with propaganda for capitalism as the soviet schools were for communism.’.
There were no pioneers, or young communist equivalents in the american public education system. Communist literature is freely available and the party is legal. If you want communism, nothing stops you from establishing a commune in America, but go open a business in the USSR. Who’s ever heard of a workers strike in the Soviet Union? False equivalency. People come up with ridiculous stuff sometimes. I think she was frustrated with her life.
Yakov
January 10, 2017 at 7:21 AM
Had the Russians simply read Von Mises’ book On Socialism, then they would have avoided the whole experiment altogether. Naive fools like Gorky would have had nothing to worry about.
map
January 13, 2017 at 2:54 PM
Right, but the world was also less hypergamous then, i.e. sexual resources were more evenly distributed (actually so were material resources). As the world becomes more stratified and Western civilization collapses under the weight of its sexual libertinism, Islam becomes a more appealing ideology as it justifies conquest and looting of booty (pun intended).
There’s a reason it’s popular in the Middle East and we continue to become a free market version of the Middle East mirroring the conditions there more and more. Of course we have a long way to go and we are not as poor (a man who is well fed and has a playstation has less incentive to risk his life and existence for pussy). The fact there is are Western white men going to fight in Syria might be the exception that proves the rule.
OldTimer
January 7, 2017 at 12:35 AM
Psychologist, Satoshi Kanazawa and his ilk came up with a stupid idea that Islam was a religion for frustrated chumps looking to impress women and get laid, because men either need to become successful or sociopathic in order to get women, and Islam appeals to the losers of society with such intentions, because its ideologies emphasize misanthropy.
By the way, this speaks for a large contingent of American and East Asian men (just look at Japan with its herbivores). East Asians are the strongest adherents of Anglosphere Zero Sum Capitalism among non-Western groups. Their strong leanings also reflect their inherent nature/culture of lower empathy and less charitable concern for humanity.
JS
January 7, 2017 at 10:25 AM
But sexual resources are not evenly distributed under Islam, they practice polygamy. In fact some Muslim men have so little chance of finding a mate the 72 virgins idea is appealing to them and could lead them to become a terrorist because of it.
Jay Fink
January 8, 2017 at 8:42 PM
Some years ago the historian Francis Fukuyama noted that Islam often can bring wavering believers back into the fold but has basically zero appeal to people who weren’t born Muslim. About the only converts it gets are highly disaffected people and members of the lumpenproletariat.
Peter
ironrailsironweights
January 7, 2017 at 12:41 AM
Cat Stevens became Muslim.
Lion of the Blogosphere
January 7, 2017 at 9:39 AM
About the only converts it gets are highly disaffected people and members of the lumpenproletariat.
And angry, violent, black prison inmates, but they usually drop it after they’re released.
Cat Stevens became Muslim.
So didn’t Cassius Clay and Mike Tyson.
E. Rekshun
January 7, 2017 at 2:17 PM
Believe or not, there are Jewish Americans who are attracted to Islam and converted. One of the Al-Qaeda members was born Jewish who grew up in California, but he was attracted to radical Islam, instead of Islam as a religion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Yahiye_Gadahn
JS
January 7, 2017 at 3:13 PM
I knew a WASP guy from high school who now works as a mechanical engineer and converted to Islam several years ago.
GondwanaMan
January 7, 2017 at 4:13 PM
Aside from noted exceptions like Cat Stevens, I think this is largely correct. The Hindus of India nor the Overseas China in Malaysia are converting to Islam at all.
Abelard Lindsey
January 8, 2017 at 12:58 PM
IIRC a lot of Dalits (“untouchables”) in India convert, for obvious reasons.
snorlaxwp
January 8, 2017 at 1:42 PM
Besides Clay and Tyson, a fair number of black athletes and jazz musicians became Mohammedans starting in the late 1960s. Some of the bigger names: Lew Alcindor, Walt Hazzard, Ahmad Jamal, Idris Muhammad, and Dwight Braxton, To this day, prisons remain fertile recruiting ground for black converts.
Lewis Medlock
January 8, 2017 at 4:05 PM
JS, that guy had one Jewish grandparent.
Yakov
January 8, 2017 at 10:21 PM
Communism on college campuses back then gave students the opportunity to be holier than thou, to virtue signal, just like they do today. It also gave young women an excuse to abandon the morals of the their elders and screw a lot of guys, all for the cause of class justice, of course. And, of course, there were the cults. Weird how as political correctness grew as a cult the older style of cults faded into the background.
Curle
January 7, 2017 at 2:26 AM
Islam is taking a different route in the West than communism did. Instead of colonizing the universities, Islam is colonizing period.
Although the attraction to Islam among Westerners is low right now, there have been tipping points in the past in which it gains real cultural traction (depending on far into insanity SJW’s push the main culture). But just moving in and making babies when your native neighbors don’t seems to be a winning strategy in Europe.
Mike Street Station
January 7, 2017 at 6:58 AM
Esteban Santiago, Muslim, killed 5
Dylann Roof, Lutheran (church member), killed 9
Steve Anderson
January 7, 2017 at 2:47 AM
Yeah, remember the Lutheran terror attacks in Madrid, London and NYC?
Faggot.
driveallnight
January 7, 2017 at 10:57 AM
But but but Timothy McVeigh was a Christian!
Bobo
January 7, 2017 at 1:29 PM
Istanbul, Berlin, Nice, Brussels, Nice, Bali, the hijacekd Egypt Air flight, Orlando, Boston marathon bombing. San Bernardino. ISIS beheadings. Cologne mass rape. Just in past 3 years.
McFly
January 9, 2017 at 9:37 AM
Communism attracts people who feel they’re not rigthly valued for their worth, and students and professors, as union workers, are good and natural clients for this feeling.
For your joke on voices, it’s noticeable to know that in catholic religion, private voices hearing and revelations, has no dogmatic values, even when they affected saints. It’s only when it is publicly seen by mani people and called a miracle by authorities , which rarely happen, that it has any dogmatic value. Catholic church is a really prudent institution.
Bruno from Paris
January 7, 2017 at 4:42 AM
The leaders of the Catholic Church have gone full-on Leftists and SJW. When my private undergrad Catholic undergrad college started spewing SJW crap (and they actually advertise “social justice” in the alumni magazine) I promised never to give them one red cent.
E. Rekshun
January 7, 2017 at 2:22 PM
The term “social justice” was coined by Jesuit priest Luigi Taparelli, and has subsequently been used in a number of Papal encyclicals.
snorlaxwp
January 8, 2017 at 12:17 AM
So I’ll just is a good thing. The problem is that today it became a caricature.
Yakov
January 8, 2017 at 8:01 PM
In fact, most bloggers and commenters should have been client for communism too, or fascism, wich was an alternative option, but more popular at the extreme of society, crooks and elite, and a bit less among “intellectuals” (wich arent exactly the same group as the intelligent people).
Bruno from Paris
January 7, 2017 at 5:05 AM
Do you think Fillon, who is likely to win the French Presidency, is serious about cracking down on immigration?
https://pragmaticallydistributed.wordpress.com/2017/01/05/le-pen-the-french-presidential-election/
The Undiscovered Jew
January 7, 2017 at 12:16 PM
One thing that Bruno never mentions is that in Paris, interracial couples between White Female Parisians and Middle Eastern/North African guys is quite common among the lower classes. The French elites however do not mix with their 3rd world colonial subjects.
The reverse holds true for the Anglo Sphere. It seems like the elites aren’t ruling it out, but the average American prole isn’t as eager as the average French, when it comes to dating and marrying out of their race.
JS
January 7, 2017 at 3:03 PM
That’s because the Middle-Easterners who migrate to the US tend to be higher class than the ones on Europe.
Bobo
January 7, 2017 at 7:55 PM
It’s both true and not true. France has many academics and entertainers, middle tier-bourgeoise types, who are of North African ancestry/Muslim background. You can’t say the same for the United States. The upper crust French elites, however, do not intermarry with anyone who is Moroccan, Algerian, Tunisian, African, Vietnamese….etc
JS
January 7, 2017 at 9:56 PM
“How do we know that Islam isn’t the true religion, and that the voice in Santiago’s head wasn’t Allah himself?”
Duh, that’s an easy one. We just watch multiple episodes of Star Trek, in which Gene Roddenberry cleverly portrays different worlds as each having a different religion,and presto, we see that religion is nonsense!
Hermes
January 7, 2017 at 11:41 AM
That particular argument/insight doesn’t exactly require leaving the planet Earth.
snorlaxwp
January 7, 2017 at 11:43 PM
Americans might do well to cut down on routine infant circumcision, seeing as it removes what’s by far the most significant barrier for men considering conversion to Islam.
snorlaxwp
January 7, 2017 at 1:49 PM
Perhaps the biggest difference between Islamic and Hispanic culture is Muslims cover up women and detest women looking attractive in public. Hispanic women are encouraged to play up their beauty, more so than white American women do. I would say a country like Venezuela where women try to look like beauty queens is the polar opposite of Saudi Arabia. I have always thought that this factor will stop Islam from gaining a big foothold in Latin American culture.
Jay Fink
January 7, 2017 at 3:52 PM
But that might not be a deal breaker. Once I was on an overnight flight from JFK to England. As sunrise came up, a Jew came up and said his prayers. Next an elderly Indian couple came up and did their thing. My seatmate (A White woman with an Eastern European accent so Bosnian? Albanian?) who was also watching the spectacle sniffly said “We Muslims do not pray until we’ve washed first.” (I.e unlike those stinky infidels.) The thing is, this exemplar of ritual purity was dressed like someone whose tits David Lee Roth would have snorted coke off.
If Hispanics can combine Catholicism and sexy I’m confident they could do the same with Islam.
Lionel of the Richiesphere
January 7, 2017 at 6:26 PM
Woman in burka: opposite of sexy.
Lion of the Blogosphere
January 7, 2017 at 8:54 PM
If you look at Muslim converts few become the secularist types you would find in a place like Bosnia. They are attracted to the fundamentalist elements in the first place or they wouldn’t bother converting.
Jay Fink
January 8, 2017 at 4:18 AM
Jay — it’s all HBD. In Medieval Islam, many of the religious elites and intellectuals only circle jerk about religion like many modern day academics when it comes to journals and books. Religion is for dumb people.
JS
January 8, 2017 at 2:40 PM
Sorry slightly o/t, but on a previous page Lion asked JS about the ease of moving to Montreal, and as regards to this it is worth mentioning that Québécois society has historically been and continues to be antithetical to Jews. Not an unimportant consideration.
Roli
January 7, 2017 at 5:50 PM
What if the Jew is willing to convert to whatever religion they have there?
Lion of the Blogosphere
January 7, 2017 at 6:03 PM
Post 1960s the Québécois gave up on Catholicism but stayed stubbornly clannish as a politicized white French community, so converting to their religion would essentially require taking on a provincial, statist, anti-Anglo mindset, something I can’t imagine a NYC Jew doing too well.
Roli
January 7, 2017 at 6:23 PM
Historically, they have been Catholic. Over the years, many French Canadians relocated into ME, VT, NH, & MA. My MA high school graduating class was probably almost 20% third generation French Canadian. My uncle married an attractive French Canadian and they recently relocated from MA to Quebec after she inherited 100 acres on the St. Lawrence River. I haven’t been since the 1967 Montreal Expo Worlds Fair as a toddler with my parents, but Montreal is often a vacation destination for New Englanders. About ten years ago, my cousin was stabbed in Montreal and spent nearly a year recuperating. Since the ’70s, a large section of Hollywood Beach, FL is over-run w/ French Canadians, mostly retirees, every year from December through April.
E. Rekshun
January 7, 2017 at 6:51 PM
If a Jew is willing to convert to Catholicism, he should be beheaded. There are better ways to earn people’s respect then converting. Like being a mensh yourself, for example. Read ‘The Sea Wolf’. Don’t let go of that book.
Yakov
January 7, 2017 at 8:29 PM
Beheading for conversion, Yakov? That sounds more Muslim than Jewish.
nebbish
January 7, 2017 at 10:11 PM
I advise anyone before moving to Québec, to do their due diligence. No Anglophone moves there for better economic opportunities, only for the North American “bourgeois” culture.
Yes, it’s odd that Lion is looking into that part of the world for a different scenery, especially if one is Jewish, because America is the only country in the world, where Jews can truly thrive.
Both Leonard Cohen and William Shatner were born in Montréal. Had they remain here, they would not have been famous and fabulously wealthy.
JS
January 8, 2017 at 12:10 AM
JS, you’ve been dissing America for years, but now you don’t advise anyone to move to Quebec?! Why? Oh, no one gies there for better economic opportunities. Mate, aren’t you not paying any taxes by living there? Isn’t your rent cheaper? Aren’t there all these French girls to talk French philosophy to? We always knew that they didn’t like outsiders and realy didn’t like Jews but you kept singing the praises of that place. I never got a decent description from you of how you are enjoying your highly cultured life there. I find this strange. This prole wants to know. You kept saying that you were willing to sacrifice materialism for culture, where is that culture that’s worth sacrificing for?
Yakov
January 8, 2017 at 1:26 AM
I only said Americans will be disappointed in French Canada, if they expect to live the kind of life where there are abundant of white collar jobs and ceaseless consumption. Québec isn’t this place. You speak French, you will work in a manual job or a few manual jobs that pay for an apartment that is less $1K a month. If you’re lucky, you get to work at the various colleges and universities that pay a low middle class salary about $50K in Canadian dollars. People who move there are the artist/creative types, musicians, writers and intellectuals, sort of like the East Village-pre-gentrification era.
Yes, Jews don’t belong in that part of the world, unless they are the religious types who just need a space to live within their community. But for many White gentile Anglophones who aren’t afflicted with the prole mentality-stockholm syndrome type, the place is heaven. Montréal is like one big college town with festivals, concerts, performances, different foods, without the BS of high living costs that one finds in NYC and San Francisco, and most important, the city residents are worldly, despite the insular nature of the province as a whole.
JS
January 8, 2017 at 11:31 AM
OK, so why don’t you post for us the stuff you do there every week?
Incidently, the jews live fine in Montreal. The ones born there are truly bilingual in English and French, pretty amazing. All the people I’d met liked it there. French anti-semitism is very mild compared to what we are used to historically. It’s a fine place for Jews like me, who have a realistic attitude to what to expect. I think a would get alone fine.
Yakov
January 8, 2017 at 6:57 PM
Yakov, Montréal is a place where you really need to know French to land any kind of substantial work, especially with anything that is office related. The wages are significantly lower than what you find in NYC. Relatively comparing to the rest of Canada, not many Jews reside in Montréal, especially with your kind. Most of them are the Moroccan Jews or North African immigrants, maybe Israeli too. I don’t know. But there is definitely a Hasidic community. I don’t interact with anyone who comes across as Jewish, except going into the Schwartz Deli twice. The food taste like Katz’s in New York, but cheaper and the service is more polite. They also speak English. No blacks and Hispanics are serving you the food. As as a whole, Ashkenazim are probably not too keen on Montréal, because of the low wages and the French barrier. I think many Ashkenazi Jews live in the English speaking sections of the city, because they don’t know French. Leonard Cohen and William Shatner grew up as Anglophones in Montréal. I live among many English Speakers in Le Plateau, not far from McGill, which is an English Speaking University.
JS
January 9, 2017 at 12:37 AM
I didn’t tell Lion, because he needs to find out for himself. Maybe it’ll work out for him.
Montréal has many Jews, and they are more insular than the ones here in NYC, simply because it’s only in the Anglosphere, where every group goes bonkers about equality and asserting cultural dominance. Comparing Québec City to Montréal is like comparing upstate Buffalo to Manhattan, although Québec is a lot prettier.
JS
January 7, 2017 at 7:26 PM
Buffalo is a bad example of upstate New York, New York is among the prettiest of all states (except maybe for western Colorado).
Lion of the Blogosphere
January 7, 2017 at 8:56 PM
I used Buffalo as an example, because people up in Buffalo are the quintessential proles of NYS. Buffalo is a very good example of a working class-industrial town. As you head further up north into Québec city, people become less cosmopolitan and more insular in the French Speaking province.
JS
January 7, 2017 at 9:44 PM
Furthermore, comparing with Québec and Upstate NY or anyplace in the Anglosphere is incomparable. Despite the insular and provincial quality of Québec, its residents aren’t anything like the proles in America.
JS
January 8, 2017 at 12:17 AM
According to Census.gov, Buffalo is nearly 40% black.
E. Rekshun
January 8, 2017 at 6:33 AM
That’s right, upstate NY does have a substantial black population in certain towns!
JS
January 8, 2017 at 11:38 AM
The blacks in upstate NY are in a few specific cities like Buffalo, Rochester and Syracuse. The surrounding countryside and small towns are as white as can be and still be in the United States.
Lion of the Blogosphere
January 8, 2017 at 1:33 PM
It’s generally true, but there are a few areas which remind you of the Bronx such as Newburgh City in Orange County, which was once an industrial town, now populated with many Hispanics and blacks as much 30% of the population.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newburgh,_New_York
Another elephant in the room that many people rarely address. The large contingent of wealthy Asians who gobble up expensive real estate in areas like Westchester and Putnam Counties — the inverse of prole areas where NAMs live alongside among lower class Whites. It’s only a matter time…..There was a wealthy Chinese businessman who bought a vineyard in France and died in a helicopter crash while he was heading for a celebration. Some are suspecting foul play. Bruno should tell you of the recent racial attacks on Asians in Paris. The end of multi-pluralism in the West would solve all these problems, but money is at stake.
JS
January 8, 2017 at 2:12 PM
Westchester is a suburb of NYC, I was talking about the real upstate.
Lion of the Blogosphere
January 8, 2017 at 3:01 PM
Albany, the capital of NYS is ~30% black.
JS
January 8, 2017 at 3:40 PM
It’s probably the government jobs in Albany, for the reason of the large black population.
JS
January 8, 2017 at 3:42 PM
My error, Newburgh has a combined NAM total of ~60% of the population!
JS
January 8, 2017 at 2:19 PM
Yakov – step away from the bong, dude. God loves Jews and God loves Catholics. He does not approve of those who pretend to be silly in their efforts to call down divine violence. You are better than that. In a perfect world, your comment as well as mine would be deleted. The better world is the world we pray for, and it is not the world you just described. Man up dude. The Sea Wolf is not a bad book, but anyone who thinks that proud ittle Jack London has the best advice for those of us facing real challenges in the real world needs to reassess. Seriously, never say anything like that again. You are better than that.
howitzer daniel
January 7, 2017 at 11:12 PM
“God loves Jews and God loves Catholics.”
Universalists believe that.
ISIS type of Muslims believe that God (aka Allah) hates Jews and Catholics.
Lion of the Blogosphere
January 7, 2017 at 11:31 PM
This is the law of the Jews:
Deuteronomy 13New King James Version (NKJV)
Punishment of Apostates
13 “If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods’—which you have not known—‘and let us serve them,’ 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice; you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him. 5 But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has spoken in order to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of bondage, to entice you from the way in which the Lord your God commanded you to walk. So you shall put away the evil from your midst.
6 “If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which you have not known, neither you nor your fathers, 7 of the gods of the people which are all around you, near to you or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth, 8 you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him; 9 but you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. 10 And you shall stone him with stones until he dies, because he sought to entice you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 11 So all Israel shall hear and fear, and not again do such wickedness as this among you.
12 “If you hear someone in one of your cities, which the Lord your God gives you to dwell in, saying, 13 ‘Corrupt men have gone out from among you and enticed the inhabitants of their city, saying, “Let us go and serve other gods”’—which you have not known— 14 then you shall inquire, search out, and ask diligently. And if it is indeed true and certain that such an abomination was committed among you, 15 you shall surely strike the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, utterly destroying it, all that is in it and its livestock—with the edge of the sword. 16 And you shall gather all its plunder into the middle of the street, and completely burn with fire the city and all its plunder, for the Lord your God. It shall be a heap forever; it shall not be built again. 17 So none of the accursed things shall remain in your hand, that the Lord may turn from the fierceness of His anger and show you mercy, have compassion on you and multiply you, just as He swore to your fathers, 18 because you have listened to the voice of the Lord your God, to keep all His commandments which I command you today, to do what is right in the eyes of the Lord your God.
New King James Version (NKJV)
Yakov
January 7, 2017 at 11:40 PM
As has been previously discussed, only a special religious court could issue such punishments, and that court no longer exists. And even when it did exist, the death penalty was exceedingly rare.
Also note that there is no punishment for members of other religions living outside of Israel. The punishment is only for the Jews. God chose the Jews as His people, but you see it’s better not to be chosen, you get to enjoy delicious unkosher food and don’t have to worry about being punished for apostasy.
Lion of the Blogosphere
January 7, 2017 at 11:54 PM
‘The Sea Wolf’ is for young readers, but if you’d missed its edifying message then, you can still catch up. Also, it bears re-reading. That’s what I did recently before sending a copy to my granddaughter in Israel, and it’s message was powerful and appropriate.
Yakov
January 7, 2017 at 11:44 PM
‘ In a perfect world, your comment as well as mine would be deleted.’
What are you talking about? 1984?
Yakov
January 7, 2017 at 11:48 PM
I understand that Lion is being humorous, but apostasy is no laughing matter.
Yakov
January 7, 2017 at 11:49 PM
Yakov – God loves you, he has listened to every single one of your thoughts, and has watched every single time you have done something good for another person! You have made him happy! And he wants you to step away from the bong! I love the Bible verses you quoted, but the Bible was not written for the purpose of our rhetorical triumphs, you know that! What did I say that was wrong – God exists, he wants us to understand him. Of course ISIS disgusts him. Good Jews and good Catholics make him happy. Heart speaks to heart (I refuse to quote a Bible verse back at you – that is not what the Bible is for!). Universalists are so obviously wrong that I do not need to explain why, Lion: it was unkind of you to compare me to a universalist.
howitzer daniel
January 7, 2017 at 11:57 PM
Yakov – In 1974 I visited Jack London’s grave site. Poor little fellow – talented as all get out, but oh so lonely, and he was never truly loved by any other human being and never loved the earth he was born into. God loves us all but if we refuse to love him back – well, if we are lucky, only moderately boring hijinks ensue. If we are not lucky – it is Old Testament time, and not in the good sense. Nice to hear you are a grand-dad: hundreds of years from now, I pray, your descendants and my descendants will number in the hundreds of thousands! Poor little Jack London, on the other hand, never had the common sense to hope such a hope….Well God loves him too and it would be more than funny if God gave him the thousands of descendants who we both know are not likely to be his without God’s extraordinary intervention…
howitzer daniel
January 8, 2017 at 12:21 AM
‘but you see it’s better not to be chosen, you get to enjoy delicious unkosher food and don’t have to worry about being punished for apostasy’.
A man ignorant of the Law cannot know this. A man thinking on the level of enjoying non-kosher food cannot know this. This is the level of a cow, not a human. Think you would be better off with Inquisition after converting? Think that when there is no Sanhedrin heretics can just go ahead and lead people astray? This makes sense to you?
Yakov
January 8, 2017 at 12:22 AM
Yakov at 12:22 – well said. God wants us to want what He wants: non-kosher food is not all that enticing, anyway. Wanting to eat the slime of the ocean and the nasty unkosher beasts of the woods (seriously – boars?) is ridiculous. Cut Lion some slack, though, it is no small thing to do what he does. He is a mensch, even if he is wrong about abortion and several other subjects.
howitzer daniel
January 8, 2017 at 12:51 AM
Daniel, the verses quoted are the Eternal Law that hasn’t changed from the day it was received. Like any law it calls for wise and appropriate application. Lion is safe for now.
Jack London was a complicated personality, but like with all writers, I separate his writings from him as an individual. He is only a secular writer. A mathematician doesn’t have to be a triangle, you know.
Yakov
January 8, 2017 at 1:08 AM
Daniel, I personally don’t beleive that there is anything intrinsically wrong with non-kosher animals or fish. Their impurity is halachic, an act of Divine will, not intrinsic. I would think that pork is delicious based on its popularity. The idea of dietary restrictions is that the food is necessary for biological existence, but not to be indulged in mindlessly.
Yakov
January 8, 2017 at 2:33 PM
>>God chose the Jews as His people…
God chose the children of Israel as his people. The Jews are a subset of those people. Other children of Israel would be the Samaritans and their wayward descendants ( the Palestinians and others scattered around that area). We can hope that the Palestinians are reverted back to an Israelite religion, preferably Judaism or Christianity, but Samaratism would be good enough. I cannot imagine Samaritans committing terrorist acts against Jews.
Daniel
January 8, 2017 at 5:26 PM
‘ I cannot imagine Samaritans committing terrorist acts against Jews.’
Jews and Samaritans were enemies and had fought each other in the past.
Yakov
January 9, 2017 at 12:12 AM
Everyone has always hated the Jews. Christians in the U.S. and Europe have stopped hating them after WWII.
Lion of the Blogosphere
January 9, 2017 at 12:54 AM
Fillon is an absolute joke. He speaks of immigration quota knowing that with european HR rules , it’s impossible yo have quotas because the right to have a family life include the obligation for the state to let the family come or even stay if they had come illegally.
Bruno from Paris
January 7, 2017 at 7:17 PM
Fillon seems pretty cool to me. He lives in a castle.
Two in the Bush
January 7, 2017 at 9:58 PM
Do you think Le Pen can win?
The Undiscovered Jew
January 8, 2017 at 11:25 AM
I’m hoping so. That’s one of my 2017 predictions.
Mike Street Station
January 9, 2017 at 9:02 AM
On interacial, the anglo-saxon (germany, netherlands, brittish, irish etc) used not to mix, the spaniard and the portuguese mixed a lot, and the french where just in the middle. Now we are more like spanish. Elite are beginning to mix too, first with asian and now with arabic people. The country has entiry changed in 20 yo. Except belgium and some parts of scandinavia, the rest of
Europe – even the UK – is not so inter-racial .
Bruno from Paris
January 7, 2017 at 7:22 PM
Spaniards mostly mixed with the natives in the New World, but not so much in Spain. Portuguese mixed with others in both the New World and at home.
France’s middle and lower class are the most mixed of Western Europe, and also in terms of variety. UK not so much, but mostly with blacks if they mix, which is worse.
What you say is definitely true with other countries, except Germany. German women intermarry with Turks, and also blacks in the past. Germany also had a Vietnamese-German born prime minister. It’s was very strange.
JS
January 7, 2017 at 10:10 PM
Germany had a minister (not prime, he lead the health and later the economics resorts) of Vietnamese ancestry who had been adopted by German parents as a baby from an orphanage in Saigon (see below). He was the first minister of Asian, actually I think the first of non-European ancestry. There are quite a few German-Turkish local politicians. But overall Germany is/feels very white compared to Britain or France, not to speak of the US, at least as far as public personalities go.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philipp_R%C3%B6sler
parrhesia
January 8, 2017 at 1:30 PM
Apparently this character has been leaving trails all over the Internet of his unstable, Islamic nature:
http://gotnews.com/breaking-fortlauderdale-terrorist-estebansantiago-joined-myspace-aashiq-hammad-recorded-islamic-music/
Walking time bomb. Known to authorities.
Someone should put together a documentary of the trail of blood Obama has left in his wake.
gothamette
January 7, 2017 at 10:05 PM
Fillon was, is, and will stay a very lazy person who enjoys is personal confort s above everything else. He is son of local “elite” (a notary, regulated profession that make on average 240ke per year) and was a very turbulent and bad student. Then his father get him the connection to be deputy congressmann and when the guy left office he was elected at 27 yo. He has bern in government since then – every time the right was – at level 1 level, during more thant 20 years and was head of sarkozy government for 5 years. He get elected in the primary by being the most conservative except Poisson and by dealing with the top tea party mouvement (manif pour tous against gay wedding). He presents himself lige a Thatcher, wich is weird in 2017. He has absolutely not the moral strength and principle of a Thatcher. He s more like a Cameron or Johnson, but in much lower class and less clever. The only interesting thing about him that his brother and him married two Uk welsh sisters and that he lives in a castle (quite common in local elites in france). We dont have anything exciting here as you americans …..
Bruno from Paris
January 8, 2017 at 2:24 AM
Do you think Le Pen can beat him?
The Undiscovered Jew
January 8, 2017 at 11:27 AM
New York times has a fair and balanced article on Sessions. You’ll have someone fantastic to deal with anf control immigration and big business as
attorney general. It looks almost too good to be true :
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/01/08/us/politics/jeff-sessions-attorney-general.html
Bruno from Paris
January 8, 2017 at 6:27 AM
Of all white gentiles only a neo-Nazi could hold views as extreme as Yakov about non-whites. And this blog would certainly not publish them. Honestly Lion, if someone suggested Trump’s daughter should be beheaded for converting to Judaism would you publish it?
prolier than thou
January 8, 2017 at 12:18 PM
Yakov gets a free pass because he is a member of a discriminated-against minority religion, and as the world’s only known proudly-prole Orthodox alt-right Jew, his voice is too unique to censor.
Lion of the Blogosphere
January 8, 2017 at 1:37 PM
On reflection, you are right not to censor these comments. If such views exist amongst Jews towards gentiles, as evinced on this thread–or at least the ones who have chosen to live amongst us in our societies in the West, then as one of those ‘slime-eating’ gentiles I’d rather know about it.
prolier than thou
January 8, 2017 at 3:05 PM
I think that Yakov’s view is unique.
Lion of the Blogosphere
January 8, 2017 at 3:29 PM
A few weeks ago I stumbled upon a fairly interesting English-language flamewar between Hasidic and non-Hasidic Israelis. The ‘Sids referred to the non-‘Sids as “the goyim.”
snorlaxwp
January 8, 2017 at 4:40 PM
‘I meant the way that Neo-Nazis regard non-whites is comparable to the way you regard gentiles–as the source of your racial blood-poisoning and cultural tainting.’
Mate, what are you talking about? I just gave you the sources of the Law. You want to ban the Bible now? Who on this blog doesn’t know that intermarriage is forbidden to the Jews? Now some might have learned that apostasy is forbidden. This is the Divine Law of Moses. Anybody can just take the book and read it. Christianity, Islam or Yazzididm don’t allow intermarriage or apostasy either. What happened to you? People can be friends without intermarriage or apostasy, or at least this is what I think.
Yakov
January 8, 2017 at 6:17 PM
@prolier,
It was Daniel, not Yakov, who referred to ocean creatures as ‘slime.’
Comparing Yakov to a white nationalist is wrong. He doesn’t think Gentiles are impure, he thinks they behave in impure ways. I suppose he would think even worse of me because I’m born into the tribe and I do un-Jewish things.
” A mathematician doesn’t have to be a triangle, you know.” How can anyone censor a man who says things like that?
gothamette
January 8, 2017 at 11:11 PM
Give me a break. That’s the same argument used by the liberals you accuse of having a double standard, when they say that blacks can’t be racist because racism comes from a position of power and blacks are an oppressed minority.
Hermes
January 9, 2017 at 8:37 PM
This is the leagal punishment for apostasy, it’s not my invention or personal opinion. Lion understands that it’s wouldn’t be enforced at present. The apostasy is too widespread and the punishment was meant to stop it and root it out. So we have to wait for better times.
Many nations have capital punishment for treason, apostasy is a treason of the Jewish nation. This is common sense and very simple.
Where do non-whites come in here?
Yakov
January 8, 2017 at 2:26 PM
The sentence was worded poorly. I meant the way that Neo-Nazis regard non-whites is comparable to the way you regard gentiles–as the source of your racial blood-poisoning and cultural tainting. The difference is that at least neo-Nazis tend to only believe this applies to their own countries, they don’t emigrate to non-white lands and apply the doctrine there. And even they would probably shy away from beheadings. I guess being able to hide behind an old book and let that take the blame makes it easier to hold such views though.
As Julian Cope almost said, ‘don’t stand on the Torah, it won’t make you any taller, it just diminishes you with every word you say’.
prolier than thou
January 8, 2017 at 3:16 PM
Well gentiles do have a long history of hating on the Jews.
And now, Jews face the danger of disappearing not because of hatred but because of the allure of delicious unkosher food, fun holidays like Christmas (as compared to Yom Kippur), and beautiful blonde shiksas more alluring than the gold-digging Jewish American Princesses (not to mention those Asian girls who love Jewish men who aren’t alpha enough to bag a blonde shiksa).
Lion of the Blogosphere
January 8, 2017 at 3:30 PM
Jews are not disappearing, far from it. Ultra religious Hasidim add another a few thousand of their kin every year, maybe even more.
JS
January 8, 2017 at 4:29 PM
Lion is right that most Jews living in the West do not view Gentiles in the negative way that Yakov has described hence the appeal of assimilation towards Gentile norms. Yakov himself probably doesn’t have anything against Gentiles as people. I find that with Orthodox and ultra-Orthodox Jews, the venom is really directed towards non-observant Jews and, even more harshly, Jews who formally convert out of the faith.
nebbish
January 8, 2017 at 7:00 PM
Most of the Jew’s problems today are caused by their own choices. The main cause is ignorance of Judaism and the resulting lack of the Jewish identity. The people of The Book have abandoned The Book. The second, and this is my personal opinion, the wrong interpretation of the Jewish religion. What’s required of us is the rebuilding of the Temple, resumption of the sacrificial service and the return to normal and healthy national life. Jews have to return to being themselves.
Yakov
January 8, 2017 at 7:10 PM
Nebbish, I’m surprised how many people on this blog have to distort my words and ascribe to me ideas that are completly foreign to my way of thinking. I don’t beleive I had written anything negative about ‘Gentiles’ as opposed to the ‘Jews’. In fact, I like non-Jews, take interest in the culture of the people I live amongst, and seek the welfare of their societies.
Basically, Lion and me are two Jews having a conversation and Lion, being a smart Jewish kid, understands that he doesn’t have to worry about me actually guillotining him. It’s more likely that Ron Unz would beat me to it. ‘Prolier then thou’ not being a Jew can understand our dynamics and overreacts. I hope he comes to his senses and apologizes for the misunderstanding.
Yakov
January 8, 2017 at 10:37 PM
“What’s required of us is the rebuilding of the Temple, resumption of the sacrificial service and the return to normal and healthy national life”
I thought that’s not allowed until Mashiah comes and says so. Who died and made you Mashiah?
gothamette
January 8, 2017 at 11:13 PM
They’d also have to tear down that mosque to rebuild the Temple. Which I would quite enjoy.
Lion of the Blogosphere
January 9, 2017 at 12:53 AM
Why destroyed? Relocated. Gentiles are allowed to offer animals to be sacrificed in the Temple. Temple is the most inclusive form of Divine Service.
Yakov
January 9, 2017 at 5:53 AM
‘I thought that’s not allowed until Mashiah comes and says so. Who died and made you Mashiah?’
While The Temple may be built in the Messianic Times, there is nothing to stop us from doing so now. Just like the first two Temples were built by regular men, so can be the third. 200 years ago most people were saying the same about the possibility of the ingathering of the exiles and establishment of an independent Jewish state.
Missianic beleives sustain people in hard times and give them hope for solving issues that they are powerless to resolve on their own. These beleives are valuable, but they shouldn’t come in the way of progress and national redemption. Nobody knows what Messianic times will be like. We got to do what we got to do meanwhile without waiting for miracles.
Waiting for the Messiah to come is often an excuse for inaction.
Yakov
January 9, 2017 at 4:57 PM
‘fun holidays like Christmas (as compared to Yom Kippur)’.
Christmas celebrates the birth of Jesus, who died on the cross to atone for the sins of mankind. The beleives are saved through faith, not deeds.
Yom Kippur is the Day of Atonment when the Jews spend the day fasting, repenting and attoning for their sins. The deeds and deeds alone affect forgiveness.
These are fundamental different religions. I don’t know why you would chose the former and think that it’s ‘fun’.
Yakov
January 9, 2017 at 10:51 PM
Yakov is a good egg.
map
January 13, 2017 at 3:21 PM
“Jews are not disappearing, far from it. Ultra religious Hasidim add another a few thousand of their kin every year, maybe even more”
I was on holiday in Israel a few months ago and although I hadn’t heard about the increase in the Jewish birth rate I googled it when I got home because there just seemed to be women with babies everywhere. It was very noticeable. Conversely it made me think that in England it is noticeably the immigrants or lower-class English women that have lots of children in tow.
prolier than thou
January 8, 2017 at 6:12 PM
Were the women with babies Orthodox looking, or secular?
Why would a non-Jew go to Israel for a holiday?
gothamette
January 8, 2017 at 11:15 PM
Because it’s The Land of the Bible, because Jews are fascinating people, because you can ski on Hermon on e day and swim in Eilat the next, etc… There are millions of reasons.
Yakov
January 9, 2017 at 5:50 AM
That’s true but I found that the majority of tourists in Israel are Jews, born again US Christians, and “alternative” Europeans.
gothamette
January 9, 2017 at 9:18 AM
It was mostly the secular women, but then we weren’t in Orthodox areas.
I didn’t plan to go there, but the woman I was going with had lived there and needed to go back for various reasons, so we went there. But I was glad that I went. Jerusalem is a very well-looked after city and if you enjoy visiting historic sites there’s really nowhere better. They still build all the buildings in Jerusalem in a light-coloured stone. There are no ugly modern buildings, even in the suburbs. Much as I have sympathy with what happened to the Palestinians I can’t deny that if they’d had the place or if they ever got the place it would certainly look nowhere near as safe, clean and modern as it does.
Yakov: my issue with what you have said is related to the fact that you hold these views in America. If you move to another person’s land you are morally and socially obligated to integrate. I know you will insist that your views are only directed at Jews, but I grew up in a religious family and I remember the sense of us-and-them, the sense of fear and superiority over non-believers that was instilled in us, and I believe that it was a negative and harmful experience. And we were English Christians living amongst English people, and my family were nowhere as extreme in their views towards us mixing with non-believers. However much you may insist otherwise, if your children absorb the message that converting to the Faith of the majority is worthy of a death sentence, and that marrying out is worthy of flogging, then the message they will take from that is that Christian Americans are something to be feared, reviled, avoided, discussed furtively behind their backs. They (Christian America) are people you are holding secrets from about how you feel towards them. There is no way a minority community could hold such views about their host over a long period of time without it becoming toxic, encouraging feelings of superiority and ill-feeling. Furthermore, the idea that Americans could ever be expected to permit beheadings within your community is like a reducto ad absurdum of multiculturalism as extreme as anyhing Muslims in the West have demonstrated. My sympathy in such a situation would most certainly be with WASP Americans because they are more or less like me and it is you who came to their country and should abide by their laws and values.
prolier than thou
January 9, 2017 at 12:22 PM
However much you may insist otherwise, if your children absorb the message that converting to the Faith of the majority is worthy of a death sentence, and that marrying out is worthy of flogging, then the message they will take from that is that Christian Americans are something to be feared, reviled, avoided, discussed furtively behind their backs.
But the death penalty for conversion of Judaism is not the position of any Orthodox rabbi that I’m aware of, and probably hasn’t been enforced in thousands of years.
They (Christian America) are people you are holding secrets from about how you feel towards them. There is no way a minority community could hold such views about their host over a long period of time without it becoming toxic,
This hasn’t really been the case with Orthodox Jews or other, non-Muslim, extreme (in terms of devotion) religious minorities like the Amish.
In both cases their members keep to themselves despite opposing much of what goes on in the surrounding secular society.
I really don’t see how Yaakov’s statement is something that should concern anyone who isn’t an Orthodox Jew.
The Undiscovered Jew
January 9, 2017 at 4:49 PM
‘If you move to another person’s land you are morally and socially obligated to integrate.’
Says who? There is no such obligation. When we went into the Babylonian exile the prophet told us to seek the welfare of the land where we would find ourselves. Incidentally, I’m pretty well integrated.
Jeremiah 29(5-9):
Build houses and dwell in them; plant gardens and eat their fruit. Take wives and beget sons and daughters; and take wives for your sons and give your daughters to husbands, so that they may bear sons and daughters—that you may be increased there, and not diminished. And seek the peace of the city where I have caused you to be carried away captive, and pray to the Lord for it; for in its peace you will have peace. For thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: Do not let your prophets and your diviners who are in your midst deceive you, nor listen to your dreams which you cause to be dreamed. For they prophesy falsely to you in My name; I have not sent them, says the Lord.
Yakov
January 9, 2017 at 10:06 PM
‘I remember the sense of us-and-them, the sense of fear and superiority over non-believers that was instilled in us, and I believe that it was a negative and harmful experience.’
Every religion beleives in its superiority. Atheists beleive in their superiority. Lion doesn’t miss a chance to dis religion. If you don’t, then why would you follow it? Christianity, in particular, beleives that there is no salvation without faith in Jesus. We’ve finally learned to live and let live, why rock the boat?
Yakov
January 9, 2017 at 10:11 PM
‘Furthermore, the idea that Americans could ever be expected to permit beheadings within your community is like a reducto ad absurdum of multiculturalism as extreme as anyhing Muslims in the West have demonstrated.’
This was never my idea. Mate, stop fantasizing.
Yakov
January 9, 2017 at 10:14 PM
‘then the message they will take from that is that Christian Americans are something to be feared, reviled, avoided, discussed furtively behind their backs.’
Christianity is a proselytizing religion. Historically it had used extreme violence and deception to convert people. Listen to Romney talk about his missionary year in France. He was coning people and preaching what he’d not beleived. So I think it’s understandable if the jews are cautious in this area.
Mathew 10:
5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7 As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’ 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,[a] drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.
9 “Do not get any gold or silver or copper to take with you in your belts— 10 no bag for the journey or extra shirt or sandals or a staff, for the worker is worth his keep. 11 Whatever town or village you enter, search there for some worthy person and stay at their house until you leave. 12 As you enter the home, give it your greeting. 13 If the home is deserving, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you. 14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. 15 Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.
Yakov
January 9, 2017 at 10:23 PM
As you know by now, I really dislike your country. But I did have a few fond memories of my 1st visit to Londontown when I was in middle school on vacation, and this was in the late 80s, when it was relatively English. Ten years later, I was visiting again and remember seeing a few faces that would evolve into this:
I always hated the cockney proles of Liverpool, but Londonistan today is probably worse off. I haven’t been back and have no intentions of visiting again.
JS
January 9, 2017 at 12:24 AM
This is a mess! Poor Shakespeare.
Yakov
January 9, 2017 at 5:54 AM
Do you think it would be better if they were all Chinese? Many South Asians evolve into Jews. The mayor of London is one of them. Not that I’m saying it’s a good thing. But London is a cesspool, like all Anglosphere areas.
JS
January 9, 2017 at 9:40 AM
The worst thing about that picture is that it’s not even just London that looks like that now, it’s everywhere from the size of a small town upwards. But there are worse places. Have you been to Paris recently? The whole city stinks of piss, there is barely a wall free from graffiti, there are what amounts to shanty towns underneath railway bridges (one under a metro stop called ‘Stalingrad’ which seemed grimly ironic) and all along the edge of the motorways round the city there are tents and shacks strewn with rubbish. It’s the most third-world place I have ever seen.
Small correction: Cockneys were from the East End of London. People from Liverpool are Scousers. Different kind of prole.
prolier than thou
January 9, 2017 at 12:37 PM
JS, you dislike too many countries. England gave us Magna Carta, it’s an important country for this alone. Got a lot of eccentrics there. Bare knuckle boxing practiced by Travellers is pretty cool. It’s not a Jewish thing, obviously, but I appreciate their guts. And the long bow? What an amazing weapon! Again, not a Jewish thing, but I wish it were. Totally cool.
Yakov
January 9, 2017 at 10:34 PM
OT: Chinese movie audiences aren’t especially interested in pandering.
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=nws&q=%E2%80%98Rogue+One%2C%E2%80%99+a+Hit+in+Most+of+the+World%2C+Opens+to+So-So+Numbers+in+China
snorlaxwp
January 8, 2017 at 11:10 PM
I realize that nobody here watches the Golden Globes, but on twitter I saw Meryl Streep’s anti-Trump speech. I really think, Lion, you should pay attention to this Hollywood hatred of Trump. It’s the real deal – much worse than the hate they had for Reagan. Much, much worse.
I really think that it’s a cold Civil War, without John Brown.
gothamette
January 8, 2017 at 11:14 PM
Yakov
January 9, 2017 at 8:37 AM
Did you have to post a link??
Trump has responded. This is embarrassing. When is he going to learn that getting into cage fights diminishes him? And a grown man arguing with a mere woman is especially disgracing & emasculating. He should have just patted her on the head and chuckled. The way Reagan would have.
gothamette
January 9, 2017 at 9:20 AM
That’s Trump being Trump, and now that he’s no longer running for office, I don’t think it hurts him.
Lion of the Blogosphere
January 9, 2017 at 10:24 AM
Oh, I see, it’s a link to an annotated version.
I have to say that for 65, she looks terrific.
gothamette
January 9, 2017 at 9:43 AM
I think Mark Dice is an anti-evolution right wing whacko. I happened to be thinking of that sort yesterday, and they are as annoying as SJWs.
gothamette
January 9, 2017 at 10:12 AM
The left-wing vermin in Hollywood regarded Reagan as a simpleminded fool. Trump, on the other hand, is more sinister because he is a mean-spirited bully who hates immigrants. Brain-dead liberals like Streep believe that Trump is evil incarnate, but Reagan is cut some slack because his motives are not as base.
Lewis Medlock
January 9, 2017 at 3:18 PM
I think that
1) The 2 millions jewish of the “Tale of settlement” who poured in the USA in the 1870-1900 period are at the origin of the position of the USA greatness. Hardship, as for every race, is what made them what they are (ace age for asian and white versus black).
Those people with an IQ of 120, represents 20 000 people with more that 150 IQ (sd=15) and you’d need 200 millions white people to have that number of intelligent people. They were the one who reshaped the industry (Sloan in general motors) , the service sector, the bank and created science at a un precedented level. The merit of the USA is to have buid a society open to them : individual talent and community acceptance.
2) The jews have strongly assimilated and their average IQ has probably dropped because of this. Probably there at the east-asian level now, except there more Verbal IQ, and asian are more Space IQ. The fact that half of harvard white college students are jews is more of a consequence of “community” acceptance than of individual talent.
Bruno from Paris
January 9, 2017 at 2:43 AM
Clear thinking from Paris.
Yakov
January 9, 2017 at 8:38 AM
Jews do have not have the technical prowess of East Asians, but they contributed in other ways that the dark caucasoid groups like the South Asians are trying to accomplished today. Academia, law, finance, etc….
JS
January 9, 2017 at 9:37 AM
A lot of my specialist doctors are of Chinese origin.
They make good doctors. Highly intelligent, calm, reassuring.
The worst doctor I’ve had is a brilliant, high-strung Indian or Pakistani Muslim. Damned intelligent but a fruitcake. OTOH, I have a Desi endocrinologist who is a prize. And I have another specialist who is Chinese-Canadian, who figured out a puzzling, long-standing problem I had (no details please) in about 5 minutes. Her manner is awesome, too. Not pretty, but married. This is something the Heartiste crowd doesn’t want to admit: hotness isn’t everything.
gothamette
January 9, 2017 at 9:40 AM
The Chinese and the other East Asians lack the diverse talent found among Caucasians. They might be good at tasks that require visual acumen. But it is Whites who create interesting spaces — viable cities where the most talented get to flourish.
JS
January 9, 2017 at 10:23 AM
“But it is Whites who create interesting spaces — viable cities where the most talented get to flourish.”
Cities corrupt people with unhealthy and self-destructive values. Even the smartest urbanites are shallow and clueless. Jefferson used to talk about this i.e. agrarianism. And while manufacturing, etc have long since superseded agriculture as the dominant force, it hasn’t solved the problem of the destructive forces of cities.
destructure
January 9, 2017 at 12:01 PM
Jews are a good example of a successful urban people. They thrive in cities, and they thrive in cities like NYC. It’s really gentiles who get into destructive behaviors more than Jews in the cities.
JS
January 9, 2017 at 6:10 PM
” The jews have strongly assimilated and their average IQ has probably dropped because of this”
But perhaps the only reason Jewish IQ was higher in the first place is that they fostered a spirit of competition within their community that meant that the less intelligent and lower achievers were shamed or unable to find wives and so left and married gentiles? This is a luxury that a minority group can afford and a strategy which Jews were in a position to practice by virtue of their place within Western societies. Host populations had no such equivalent recepticle for its unwanted members unless they had overseas colonies. So perhaps the marrying out of successful Jews is only a reversal of a previous trend.
prolier than thou
January 9, 2017 at 12:52 PM
‘But perhaps the only reason Jewish IQ was higher in the first place is that they fostered a spirit of competition within their community that meant that the less intelligent and lower achievers were shamed or unable to find wives and so left and married gentiles? :
Jews did no such thing, ever. Because they are descendants and disciples of Abraham. They raise money to marry off the poor and provide them with funds to establish a home. They don’t throw their people to the dogs.
Yakov
January 9, 2017 at 11:28 PM
That may be wishful thinking on your part. Jews do have higher IQ, and prolier than thou has a reasonable explanation for how that happened.
Lion of the Blogosphere
January 10, 2017 at 9:02 AM
Maybe a reasonable specialation for someone ignorant of the Jewish culture, but not an explanation. You are also ignorant, by the way. And I hope that you realise it too.
Yakov
January 10, 2017 at 9:41 AM
Over 1900 years of the diaspora, a lot could have happened that has now been forgotten.
Lion of the Blogosphere
January 10, 2017 at 10:15 AM
TUJ wants Jews to further enhance their gene pool through assimilation and intermarriage with European White gentiles, who are regarded the apex of beauty and social etiquette.
Yakov wants the opposite, but thinks Jews should remain outsiders among White gentiles and capitalize on their societies.
And now you know why the Alt-Right/Neo-Nazis think Jews pose a problem — the same way blacks and other non-whites are a problem, but in a different manner.
JS
January 10, 2017 at 10:31 AM
Yakov’s point of view is very unique and is not shared by any other Jews.
Jews are for the most part either (1) secular, and they have no interest in being outsiders; and (2) crazy religious fanatics, who have the same problems as any other crazy religious fanatics, but thankfully they religion doesn’t believe in jihad.
Lion of the Blogosphere
January 10, 2017 at 10:37 AM
Jews are still seen as outsiders. Although intermarriage between White gentiles and Jews are on the rise, it is not on the same trajectory between let’s say Italian and Irish intermarriages.
Yakov view is not unique, most religious Jews live in secular societies, outside of Israel.
JS
January 10, 2017 at 10:50 AM
Yakov is the only alt-right orthodox Jew (or one of only a tiny handful that you can count on the finger of your hands).
Lion of the Blogosphere
January 10, 2017 at 11:19 AM
‘And now you know why the Alt-Right/Neo-Nazis think Jews pose a problem — the same way blacks and other non-whites are a problem, but in a different manner.’
No, it’s because of people like you who distort my views and force me to prove that I’m not a camel.
Yakov
January 10, 2017 at 12:33 PM
Lion, you have a cavalier attitude to te Jewish tradition. Unlike, say neanderthals, Jews are alive and well and have a richly documented hustory going back thousands of years.
The following is a 2,000 year old text that has been a part of the daily morning prayer for over a thousand years. From this text you see the importance that Jews place e on helping the poor and dowering poor brides (and grooms). You can’t just make stuff up without any historical evidence that Jews were expelling the poor and less capable members from their midst to breed a superrace. This is retarded.
Mishnah. Treatise Peah, ch. i.
‘These are the things which have no fixed measure (by enactment of the Law): the corners of the field, the first fruits, the offerings brought on appearing before the Lord at the three festivals, the practice of charity and the study of the Law.—These are the things, the fruits of which a man enjoys in this world, while the stock remains for him for the world to come: viz., honoring father and mother, the practice of charity, timely attendance at the house of study morning and evening, hospitality to wayfarers, visiting the sick, dowering the bride, attending the dead to the grave, devotion in prayer, and making peace between man and his fellow; but the study of the Law is equal to them all.’
Yakov
January 10, 2017 at 12:49 PM
Doesn’t change basic biology, that women want to marry successful men, and in the Jewish community a man who was bad at Torah and Talmud was less successful at being Jewish and a less desirable spouse.
Lion of the Blogosphere
January 10, 2017 at 1:23 PM
This sounds like a true idea, but there is a huge difference between saying this and saying that the jews were expelling the weak and the poor from their community in order to bread a super race. You and ‘Prolier’ are going full Nazi in your arguments, by the way. I’m surprised that you are persisting, instead of admiring that it was a ridiculous speculation not based on any historical evidence.
Yakov
January 10, 2017 at 2:34 PM
“Yakov is the only alt-right orthodox Jew (or one of only a tiny handful that you can count on the finger of your hands).”
Not to diminish Yakov, but the original alt-right ultraorthodox Jew is Rabbi Mayer Schiller.
Lewis Medlock
January 14, 2017 at 12:29 PM
The jews have strongly assimilated and their average IQ has probably dropped because of this. Probably there at the east-asian level now, except there more Verbal IQ, and asian are more Space IQ.
Don’t be so sure.
There is evidence of a synergistic intelligence advantage white gentile-Ashkenazi hybrids have over both groups individually. Arguably the greatest Jewish mathematician of all time and greatest German mathematician since Gauss, was the half-German Alexander Grothendieck. Other exceptionally gifted half-Jews include Niels Bohr (half Dutch), Garry Kasparov (half Armenian) and the great computer scientist John McCarthy (half Irish).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Grothendieck
Alexander Grothendieck (German: [ˈɡroːtn̩diːk]; French: [ɡʁɔtɛndik]; 28 March 1928 – 13 November 2014) was a German-born French mathematician who became the leading figure in the creation of modern algebraic geometry.[6][7] His research extended the scope of the field and added elements of commutative algebra, homological algebra, sheaf theory and category theory to its foundations, while his so-called “relative” perspective led to revolutionary advances in many areas of pure mathematics.[6][8] He is considered by many to be the greatest mathematician of the 20th century.[9]
The Undiscovered Jew
January 9, 2017 at 5:02 PM
My guess is, all things being equal, if Ashkenazi A can marry either Ashkenazi B or White Gentile A, who both have the same IQ, the latter pairing will tend to produce higher-IQ children, because they wouldn’t be as inbred.
Not just a Jewish thing; you could probably generalize to, say Irish and Finns, or any other pair of ethnicities with reasonably similar mean IQs, such that the benefits of outbreeding outweigh any regression to the mean.
The pro-eugenic effects of outbreeding are IMHO a big part of why pretty much any ethnicity you can think of has done better in America than in the home country.
snorlaxwp
January 9, 2017 at 6:42 PM
My guess is, all things being equal, if Ashkenazi A can marry either Ashkenazi B or White Gentile A, who both have the same IQ, the latter pairing will tend to produce higher-IQ children, because they wouldn’t be as inbred.
Not just a Jewish thing; you could probably generalize to, say Irish and Finns, or any other pair of ethnicities with reasonably similar mean IQs, such that the benefits of outbreeding outweigh any regression to the mean.
True, but the hybrid vigor advantage could still be particularly notable in Ashkenazi-white gentile offspring because Ashkenazi have higher frequencies of intelligence genes.
Also, if the characteristics needed to produce genius is tied into complex personality factors, and not only ones related to IQ, then the advantage from having a white gentile parent would be that the gentile parent would be coming from an ethnic group with a wider range of personality traits (Ashkenazi seem to have a narrower range of personalities).
The pro-eugenic effects of outbreeding are IMHO a big part of why pretty much any ethnicity you can think of has done better in America than in the home country.
The advantage probably becomes a negative if whites mix with races outside the white race. Hybridization is best when the different characteristics being mixed are close enough to create new trait combinations, but not so distant that the traits are qualitatively different. That means mixing different European ethnicities could be an advantage for a country, but a disadvantage with groups outside Europe.
The Undiscovered Jew
January 9, 2017 at 11:29 PM
IQ isn’t everything. Half-breeds are conflicted and have a lot of problems figuring out who they are. Many are messed up. It’s only natural. Spain is is like 20% genetically Jewish and how did this help her?
Yakov
January 10, 2017 at 7:34 AM
Spain discovered and then conquered the New World. But then they got into some foolish wars with England.
Lion of the Blogosphere
January 10, 2017 at 9:10 AM
The figure’s actually that 20% of Spaniards have any Sephardic ancestry at all, which is very different. And it’s cancelled out by the 11% with North African ancestry.
Probably more than cancelled out, since Sephardics are only overachievers on about the same level as gentile N. Europeans like the British/Dutch/Germans/Scandinavians. It’s Ashkenazi Jews who are the big overachievers. North African genes are more harmful than Sephardic genes are beneficial.
snorlaxwp
January 10, 2017 at 6:35 PM
Spain is is like 20% genetically Jewish and how did this help her?
Spain is 5% Jewish, at most. The study suggesting 20% was an overestimate.
The Undiscovered Jew
January 10, 2017 at 7:57 PM
You name a few of these individuals who are part Jewish/Gentile, and you assume this is true. I say it’s not, because most Jewish/Gentile hybrids in America are not among the nerds.
Just look at the slew of entertainers in Hollywood and that’s where they are found. Carrie Fisher, despite being a woman, is a good example of this tragedy.
JS
January 10, 2017 at 9:44 PM
Bother the Jews and the Chinese are ancient nations. There is over a billion Chinese, but only around 14 million Jews with only part of them being Jewishly aware and counted as belonging to the historical Jewish nation. It’s legitimate to wonder where did that billion of Jews go? Did they go away looking for ‘higher status’ among illiterate proles of the ancient and medieval world? This is a new theory Lion and Prolier have coauthored. The theory is fantastic.
There is some truth to it, though. It’s hard to find fulfillment in Judaism as a religion for an unlearned individual, as commenters on this blog amply illustrate. Hassidic movement tried to breath a new life into the masses which felt alienated by the learning section of the community.
I wanted to write more, but I have to run to work. Today is shaping up like a good day for me. Got three service calls already: 1. Fujitsu ductless. 2.Trane central split heat pump. 3. McQuay PTAC. Thus is the diversity that I like.
Yakov
January 11, 2017 at 7:27 AM
“The advantage probably becomes a negative if whites mix with races outside the white race. Hybridization is best when the different characteristics being mixed are close enough to create new trait combinations, but not so distant that the traits are qualitatively different. That means mixing different European ethnicities could be an advantage for a country, but a disadvantage with groups outside Europe.”
That’s not just probably true, it is true. Just look at southern Europe. I know you don’t like Lynn, but he writes in Race Differences in Intelligence that there is a correlation of 0.928 between the number of years of north African occupation of a Spanish region and today’s mean IQ. Meaning that the longer they occupied a territory, the more they mixed with them and the lower their IQ today. They are also more hot-headed due to high percentages of the MAOA-2R allele distribution (Saudis [Arabs] are highest).
Vox Day, for example, says that the more south you go in Italy, the more dirty and less tidy everything becomes. In his words, the southern Italians are nice people, but they don’t get you on the moon. Michael Hart also hinted at this in his brilliant “Understanding Human History,” taking Portugal as an example: they mixed with their slaves, and their power declined accordingly.
Or look at nations like Brazil or the Dominican Republic, where a lot of the people are mulattoes. Are they on par culturally and economically with homogeneous Japan or South Korea? Or Germany, where race mixing is now a threat, but due to the tendency to prefer those who are like oneself — Rushton called it the Genetic Similarity Theory, based on kin selection — you don’t see too many who mix.
All in all mixing between races too far apart should not be supported by society, I think it should be seen as something very decadent, and it’s mostly woman who do this. As regards the North Africans who are somehow elite in the US: not really. Zaccaria is a Pakistani, and while he is part of the elite, I don’t think he’s a terribly important figure or original thinker even. The elite is still white, Jewish or northeast Asian, and this won’t change anytime soon. Again, the southern Europeans mixed with people from MENA, and they are now the workhouses of Europe, in constant need of wealth redistribution. Just like Berlin or Bremen are dependent on the high IQ south of Germany, or how blacks and Muslims, for the most part, depend on the native European tax payer to pay their bills.
Elementarsatz
January 11, 2017 at 11:49 AM
“Not just a Jewish thing; you could probably generalize to, say Irish and Finns, or any other pair of ethnicities with reasonably similar mean IQs, such that the benefits of outbreeding outweigh any regression to the mean.”
There is little inbreeding in Europe. There was this argument by German politician Schaueble that securing the border and not leaving in millions from the third world would lead Germany to degenerate by becoming inbred. There are maps out there showing that Europe is almost zero inbred, whereas Africa and MENA especially are inbred are living in MENA countries, as opposed to Europe (can be easily found via an image search). E.g.: https://jaymans.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/inbreeding-gradient-europe-d.png
In fact, as German anthropologist Andreas Vonderach writes, the invention of the bicycle was enough to prevent inbreeding. You’d ride to the next village, and this was enough to prevent it. Also note the many German and European geniuses, who were mostly of “pure” descent. Cf. “German dominance at highest levels of accomplishment”: https://wmjas.wordpress.com/2012/07/02/german-dominance-at-the-very-highest-levels-of-accomplishment/
Elementarsatz
January 11, 2017 at 12:01 PM
Again, the southern Europeans mixed with people from MENA, and they are now the workhouses of Europe, in constant need of wealth redistribution.
I strongly agree with your points about race mixing (technologically this is best solved by encouraging racially mixed people to have children using white sperm/egg donations in IVF).
But it is not helping it to confuse it with very doubtful, and frankly tired, arguments that modern Southern Europeans are genetically very different from ancients. It only antagonizes those with Southern European backgrounds (Italian Americans are the fourth largest white American ethnicity).
Some general points on this –
* Southern Europeans have less than 5% admixture with Middle Easterners. The higher estimates confused an admixture that took place with Neolithic farmers well before the Greeks and Romans came into prominence. The failure to account for Neolithic farmers is another reason why Sephardic ancestry was overestimated in Spaniards just as North African ancestry was. Since ancient times there has been very little contact with Near Eastern populations.
And what mixing there was between Romans and Greeks with Middle Easterners happened at a time when the Middle Easterners were whiter and smarter populationssuch as Phoenicians, Persians, non-Greek Anatolians, higher caste Egyptians, and pre-Islamic Syrians. Mixing with these Middle Easterners might have served to add more talent to their native gene pools than it subtracted.
* Physical depictions of Ancient Greeks and Romans in pottery, paintings, frescoes, and literary descriptions are largely consistent with their modern descendants. They are shown to have curly or brown hair (I have never seen Ancient Greek pottery portray Hellenes with blond hair), usually olive toned skin (as in surviving Roman frescoes) while literary sources comparing Greeks and Romans to Northern European tribes often noted the Northerners were taller, and fairer than they were.
Physically, the conclusion is overwhelming that Greeks and Romans physically resemble modern Greeks and Italians.
To the extent there is a difference, it might be that modern Southern Europeans are more Germanic than ancient Southern Europeans because of Gothic invasions and because the Romans often took other Europeans as slaves.
For a discussion of the physical characteristics of ancient Greeks, please see this scholarly article:
Racial Type of the Ancient Hellenes
http://dienekes.awardspace.com/articles/hellenes/
* African ancestry is negligible in all Southern European populations except for some parts of Portugal, and even then it does not rise to 10% African. Sicily is between 0.5% to 1% African.
* The IQs of Spaniards (whom Lynn estimates have an average IQ of 98 despite), Southern Italians, and Greeks is probably in the high 90s. A centuries worth of IQ and educational data show Italian Americans and Greek Americans have IQs and education outcomes slightly better than the white American norm. Even assuming that the smarter Greeks and Southern Italian immigrants remained in the United States, at worst that means native Greeks and Sicilians have IQs in the high 90s.
The Undiscovered Jew
January 11, 2017 at 6:20 PM
Zaccaria is a Pakistani, and while he is part of the elite, I don’t think he’s a terribly important figure or original thinker even. The elite is still white, Jewish or northeast Asian, and this won’t change anytime soon.
Northeast Asians are a very negligible part of the American elite.
Prominent Middle Eastern Americans are usually Levantine Christians (Nicholas Taleb), Armenian or Georgian Christians, or the smartest Muslim populations such as often ethnically Greek Turks (like Dr. Oz) or Persians.
The Undiscovered Jew
January 11, 2017 at 6:22 PM
And Steve Jobs.
Lion of the Blogosphere
January 11, 2017 at 6:44 PM
There is little inbreeding in Europe. There was this argument by German politician Schaueble that securing the border and not leaving in millions from the third world would lead Germany to degenerate by becoming inbred.
The most inbred European populations are those that had some natural barrier to mixing with other European ethnicities. The British, Irish, and Scandinavians are all fairly inbred compared to Continental Europeans as a result of their geographic isolation.
Genetically the French are an almost 50-50 balance between Southern Europeans and Northern Europeans. Germans have admixture from Central European Slavs and a bit from Southern Europe. Balkan Slavs have significant genetic input from Greeks, and Italians (Balkan Slavs usually have dark hair).
The European ancestry of Russians is perhaps the most heterogeneous of all. They have ancestry from Scandinavians, German, the Caucuses (especially in Ukraine), some Jewish, combined with a native Slavic genetic base.
The Undiscovered Jew
January 11, 2017 at 6:32 PM
OT: The Kushner-Bannon friendship: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/01/jared-kushner-trump-administration-power.html
“Kushner’s impact can be seen in the centrist tilt of Trump’s economic team, which is heavy on Goldman Sachs guys. For secretary of State, he preferred Mitt Romney and, later, Rex Tillerson over bomb-throwers like John Bolton and Rudy Giuliani. At the same time, he has been an internal supporter of Steve Bannon, the former Breitbart chairman, now Trump’s polarizing senior counselor. “For a guy who was a progressive,” Bannon says, “he really gets this grassroots populist movement in a huge way.”
…Trump cycled through two campaign managers, Corey Lewandowski and Paul Manafort, before Kushner found in Bannon a strategist just as disdainful as he was of the traditional campaign playbook. “He threw the whole thing out,” Bannon says. “That’s why I bonded with him.” Though their politics differed, Kushner arguably has more in common with Bannon — an insurgent attitude, a disdain for the GOP Establishment, a background in digital media — than with anyone in Trump’s orbit besides Ivanka. “Two different worlds, yet they seem to get along and work well together,” says a Republican who knows Kushner and Bannon. “I think he sees Bannon as a valuable resource in the advancement of Trump. It’s not about what he thinks, it’s about getting Trump what he needs.”
…When Bannon’s appointment came under fire, on the other hand, from groups like the Anti-Defamation League, Kushner tried to rally support from Jewish organizations. “If you’re in a foxhole with him, and fighting with him, you’re a brother, and he will defend you nonstop,” Bannon says. More recently, during the December dustup over John Kerry’s reproachful parting shot at Israel’s commitment to a two-state solution, Bannon and Kushner were said to be working back channels to Netanyahu’s government.”
IHTG
January 9, 2017 at 9:51 AM
JS, there is a african/Asian neighborhood in Paris, Belleville, were you have many attacks on asian by african. It is the first time that a judge condemned an african for a racist attack on a asian because the stupid guy confessed he was assaulting asian. One of the reason Asian don’t complain too much, it’s because they bring a lot of cash wich is money that espace taxes. They are known to do lots of business in cash and are hard to control. They are also paying contractors to protect them.
In Paris though, despite a massive presence of african in many neighborhood, you don’t feel threaten. But in the northern suburbs, in the public transport going to the airport, it can be dangerous. This situation is really a pity. Elite doesn’t seem to care because they live in places where they don’t deal with this problem.
Then, i was in Cap Town (South Africa) las winter and Rio de janeiro, and i can assure you that we are absolutely not in Paris in a situation like the one that prevails in those cities. I don’t hide that the situation is a disgrace. And there is very few reason to be optimistic about it.
Bruno from Paris
January 9, 2017 at 3:55 PM
I would rather have North Africans over Asians and black africans in French speaking areas.
Asians have nothing to contribute. They just make money for themselves, usually not very friendly, and they have no interesting culture. blacks are the same, but have sociopathic tendencies.
JS
January 9, 2017 at 5:20 PM
And this picture is a section of Le quartier chinois in Paris:
Why do French people allow these foreigners ruin a magnificent city like Paris? They are not compatible with Europeans and they have no business to live in France. They are not even subjects of French Colonialism so they have no right to be there. Chinese people create eyesores in Western Societies. They have no aesthetic concept or beauty, and are worse than Muslim people in this regard. At least, I can smoke hookah and watch belly dancing in a North African restaurant. The Chinese cuisine is very boring and require no culinary talent as it seems, almost like Sloppy Joe’s in casual American food.
JS
January 9, 2017 at 10:16 PM
This is what happens when you have a clash of cultures, especially an unremarkable one confronting a dynamic one that allows comfort and modernity. Forget about Muslims implementing Sharia Law in France. The primitive Chinese think the French people are lazy and skirt labor laws than turns France into a sweatshop.
http://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-cant-understand-why-the-french-work-so-little-2013-10
JS
January 10, 2017 at 12:49 AM
And this is your typical, cold, unimaginative and bland interior setting of most East Asian businesses, which is related to HBD — from that article:
JS
January 10, 2017 at 12:55 AM
Thai and Chinese know cheap. Japanese would never accept an interior like that.
Lion of the Blogosphere
January 10, 2017 at 9:07 AM
I went over that article again about the Chinese who break labor laws in France. The Chinese guy talks like Yakov, essentially that’s how proles talk when it comes to work. “You work more hours, you make more money”.
It’s sad how France is turning into the United States. The sole pursuit of money cheapens life and it turns Western societies into cesspools, because these non-white immigrants are willing to settle for scraps!
JS
January 11, 2017 at 2:57 PM
“Thai and Chinese know cheap. Japanese would never accept an interior like that.”
It’s unlikely that Koreans would accept that kind of interior either. The Koreans are much closer to the Japanese on cleanliness and décor than they are to the Chinese.
Lewis Medlock
January 14, 2017 at 12:37 PM
It has nothing to do with cleanliness, but the inherent lack of creativity, diversity and warmth among all East Asians, when it comes to visual design capabilities. Europeans and other Caucasoids have surpassed East Asians in architectural design. East Asians can only emulate.
JS
January 14, 2017 at 12:49 PM
Disagree about the Japanese.
Lion of the Blogosphere
January 14, 2017 at 2:03 PM
Genetic tests reveal that the Japanese are quite distant from the Chinese and to a certain extent the Koreans. So you might have a point.
One is able to find Japanese scholars in all kinds of academic subjects, which we call the liberal arts in America. Japan managed to produce a few scholars in the Classics, Islamic studies and even Judaism. The Chinese are willfully naive about the world. I often attend academic meetings outside of the STEM and social science disciplines, and so far I have not encounter a single Chinese in them.
JS
January 14, 2017 at 4:09 PM
Every year there is an antiquarian bookfair that takes place in the Armory on Park Avenue, where a few hundred book dealers around the world come to NYC and display their old books for sale. There were a few book dealers from Japan. Other than that, anybody else who participates is White. This goes to show you that liberals are deliberately ignorant of HBD.
JS
January 14, 2017 at 4:17 PM
I almost agree with all the comments on mine :
– Between 1930 and today, out of 360 “nobel prizes” in physics, economy (bank of sweden) and math (field) medals, you’ve got 300 whites and 60 asian (east-asian + indian/pakistani/iranian). Out of the 300 whites, 96 are jewish ! i even – independently calculated – their average IQ on the idea that the overrepresentation of jewish in white (30 times) should give the average IQ of those nobels considering a 15 IQ gap between jewish and non jewish. 5 of them are sephardi jewish but when you research them, you find that 4 had an ashkenazi mother. Only one (physics nobel prize french from maghreb is really sephardi)
– the jewish intelligence is not since ever. Hardship made them great : they were in a position were it was difficult to survice, and they specialized in jobs were the most intelligent is more successful. As people had all the more children they were rich, it’s easy to understand why they became more and more clever with centuries.
– JS, the picture is exactly the street i was thinking about. I like this street despite beeing very cosmopolit. There is a beautifull park hidden just in the middle.
Bruno from Paris
January 10, 2017 at 2:42 AM
“Hardship made them great : they were in a position were it was difficult to survice, and they specialized in jobs were the most intelligent is more successful. As people had all the more children they were rich, it’s easy to understand why they became more and more clever with centuries.”
This is not a believable statement. It’s like arguing that Jews became bankers because they were not allowed to be peasants.
map
January 11, 2017 at 7:16 PM
“Between 1930 and today, out of 360 “nobel prizes” in physics, economy (bank of sweden) and math (field) medals, you’ve got 300 whites and 60 asian (east-asian + indian/pakistani/iranian). Out of the 300 whites, 96 are jewish ! i even – independently calculated – their average IQ on the idea that the”
Nobel Prizes mean little nowadays, largely being granted for useless minutiae. It’s a political prize as much as anything else, even in the sciences. And who are politically networked than Jews?
map
January 11, 2017 at 7:25 PM
independlty of Pumpkin person who had the same idea before me.
Bruno from Paris
January 10, 2017 at 2:43 AM
Yakov seems to be entering ‘no true Scotsman’ territory with his claim that at no point over the last two thousand years have the less successful members of the Jewish diaspora ever been tempted to throw in their faith and join the native working classes. I freely admit this was merely speculation on my part; but if you can’t speculate on a blog like this than where can you do so?
It’s typical of intensely religious and nationalistic people that they mistake the intensity of their feelings with some kind of special power of insight into the way their people acted and behaved in the past, even in a culture as scattered and disparate as that of the Jews. I’m sure I have even guilty of it myself when I was younger, so I can understand where he’s coming from. But I doubt very much that this has never gone on throughout Jewish history. Lion provides some excellent reasons for this himself. Personally, I was thinking along the lines that money buys power and security, and if Jews were subject to persecution then it makes complete sense that the poorer Jews would have a much stronger reason to assimilate to the host culture, and less ability to attract a mate within it. Seems reasonable to me.
prolier than thou
January 10, 2017 at 3:40 PM
I’m saying that Jews had never expelled weak, dumb or poor members of the community and had left them no choice but to convert to Christianity, like you and Lion both were speculating above. This is very simple. I don’t know why it’s so hard to understand. I always have to keep proving that I’m not a camel, why?
Obviously money and power had their advantages for survival, but so did simple faith of the poor and unlearned folks who haven’t been exposed to the benefits offered by wealth and power and did not stand to lose them.
Yakov
January 10, 2017 at 5:19 PM
I didn’t mean it was official policy in the Talmud, but rather the speculation is that Jewish men who weren’t good at Torah and Talmud study had the lowest status, and since people hate being low status they may have sought status outside of the Jewish community (in a time when ability to do physical labor was pretty highly valued among the gentiles).
Lion of the Blogosphere
January 10, 2017 at 6:06 PM
Enlightenment philosopher Baruch Spinoza was famously excommunicated by the Jews of Amsterdam.
snorlaxwp
January 10, 2017 at 6:13 PM
“I’m saying that Jews had never expelled weak, dumb or poor members of the community and had left them no choice but to convert to Christianity, like you and Lion both were speculating above”
I never said that. And you still haven’t actually proved you are not a camel.
” the jewish intelligence is not since ever. Hardship made them great”
Gypsies have had it tough to, but without such impressive results. You aren’t a camel are you Bruno?
prolier than thou
January 10, 2017 at 6:49 PM
Personally, I was thinking along the lines that money buys power and security, and if Jews were subject to persecution then it makes complete sense that the poorer Jews would have a much stronger reason to assimilate to the host culture, and less ability to attract a mate within it.
Persecution by gentiles might have made it harder for less intelligent members of the Jewish community to remain Jewish (although there’s no indication this sort of pressure gave extra intelligence to Mizrahi Jews living with Muslims who often persecuted them) .
If there was pressure to leave and convert to Christianity that was the result of gentile actions, not a deliberate plan on the part of Jews to kick out less impressive members.
The Undiscovered Jew
January 10, 2017 at 8:01 PM
@snorlaxwp
Spinosa was a heretic. What’s your point?
Yakov
January 10, 2017 at 9:24 PM
‘and since people hate being low status they may have sought status outside of the Jewish community’.
Here is what Talmud had to say about the matter: נחת דרגא ונסב אתתא – go down a step and take a wife. My understanding of the passage is as follows. People have a tendency to think that they and their families are special. This leads, among other things, to them not being able to find what I their eyes is a suitable marriage partner. The Talmud tells us step down from what you think is your level and take a wife, she’ll be just fine for, this is your true level and not what you think it is. Status is phony, as the Talmud teaches לא המקום מכבד את האדם, אלא אדם מכבד את מיקומו Its not the position that brings honor to a man, but a man brings honor to his position. Obviously not everyone would internalize these ideas, but they were at the foundation of the Jewish culture.
This is not to say that the life outside of the Jewish society doesn’t have its attraction.
Yakov
January 11, 2017 at 12:20 AM
No particular reason, just tangentially related to the discussion and I always thought the excommunication notice was amusingly over the top. Also interesting as one of the earlier historical examples of the Streisand Effect.
snorlaxwp
January 11, 2017 at 12:28 AM
The wave of Eastern European Jewish immigrants who came through Ellis Island in the early 20th century, were hardly great examples of supermen. Many of them were dirt poor and not very educated. People misplace Jewish success with natural talent. Much of their success comes from in-group cooperation and hard work. Furthermore, there is no great Jewish civilization to date. The Jews were God’s Chosen, but the Greeks managed to create their own gods, and at the same developed rationalism, which leads us to this blog.
Given the fact that the Ashkenazim are very closely related to the people of Greece and Anatolia in a genetic sense, they could have been the same people who gave us Western Civilization, but chose a kooky cult and became irrational.
JS
January 11, 2017 at 12:39 AM
‘Also interesting as one of the earlier historical examples of the Streisand Effect.’
In the Orthodox Jewish world Spinoza is wiified to this day and no one knows what he was saying. The ban reflects the sensitivity to apostasy on the part of the Portuguese exiles in Amsterdam, many of whom had to live as crypto-Jews for a long time before escaping to Holland.
Yakov
January 11, 2017 at 9:03 AM
Why no mention of the “Natural History of Ashkenazi Intelligence” by Cochran, Hardy and Harpending?
Lewis Medlock
January 14, 2017 at 12:42 PM
I have a feeling that old buzzard Soros has a hand in this. Sure Saudis spend money from Oil to build Mosques, but recruiting disaffected non-Whites in prison sounds like a Soros run operation. This sad sack is like a Dr. Evil type supervillain wannabe. He wrecks countries for fun and profit. Almost all the dirty dealing Leftist organizations like Acorn, DailyKos and a host of other are financed by this sucker. It wouldn’t surprise me if this old bugger was setting up ISIS recruitment stands in every prison and ghetto in America.
Joshua Sinistar
January 10, 2017 at 4:48 PM
Noting of the kind. All religions are activitie in prison. This is the time to reevaluate one’s life and change one’s ways. My time in Rikers was very productive intellectually. The rabbi never showed up athough I’d asked to see him more then once. They should’ve replaced him, I think. If you don’t think about the meaning of life in prison, then when are you gonna do it? Short period of incarceration with a cross sections of society is very beneficial, or at least this is what I think.
Yakov
January 10, 2017 at 8:36 PM
Yakov – I had a couple friends who went POW or worse, and a couple other friends who were arrested on bullshit charges (30 years from now if they live that long they will get tearful apologies from the DA’s of the future). (I also had a few friends who committed actual crimes – I wish they had not done that, but they did. They did not have to). You are correct, all religions are active in prison. God wins out in the end, no matter what.
howitzer daniel
January 10, 2017 at 11:04 PM
Only lower IQ individuals need religion in America. And Judaism is not really a religion, but a culture, maybe similar to a philosophical system or a tribal religion for an Abrahamic faith. Christianity and Islam have an universal component, every man is your brother. But Judaism does not have this concept. Judaism is only for Jews and only serves the interests of Jews. And maybe Lion is correct to say that secular Jews are like Christians, because many of them are liberals, which does have this universal concept.
JS
January 11, 2017 at 10:34 AM
‘Judaism is only for Jews and only serves the interests of Jews’.
For most religions the goal of the life in this world is to earn the life in the world after death. In this most important area, Christianity and Islam deny the possibility to nonbelievers, Judaism doesn’t. As I’ve already wrote, a Gentile can donate animals for the Temple Service, non Muslims cannot enter Mecca and there is no way a non Christian can contribute to the service. Judaism, is the most universal of all religions and the whole concept of universality had been taken from it by Christianity and Islam. At the end of days the mankind will come to recognize the Divine Truth. The traditional belief is that it will be through abundance of wisdom, not by the sword or performance of ‘miracles’.
The seventy cows offered during the holiday of Succot are an attonment for the sins of the seventy Gentile nations. There is nothing comparable in Christianity or Islam. If you read the Five Books of Moses, you will see for yourself the universal aspect of Judaism. I don’t think that you gonna do it though.
Yakov
January 11, 2017 at 1:41 PM
Yakov — Judaism doesn’t seek converts like Christianity, and it doesn’t want outsiders like Islam, essentially, it is closed off to everyone except Jews.
Christian Missionaries seek converts, and I have seen Muslims act in a similar manner. Hasidic Missionaries only seek a specific type of convert, to bring back secular Jews into its fold. Do you think they will stop a black guy and ask him if he wants to become Jewish? No, they are always trying to ask a guy who might be Jewish (a White person), and if he is, then try to engage him.
JS
January 11, 2017 at 7:41 PM
“Hasidic Missionaries”
Only the Lubavitch do that, all other Hasidim want nothing to do with secular Jews.
Lion of the Blogosphere
January 11, 2017 at 7:47 PM
Yes, that is correct. They are also called the Chabad and Trump donates money to them.
JS
January 11, 2017 at 10:46 PM
It’s universal in the sense that it is concerned with the welfare of the world, not with that of the Jews alone. It doesn’t proselytize, but it doesn’t reject converts either. It’s wise and realistic. The reason that European nations are so violent and promiscuous is because the moral code of Christianity is incompatible with their genetic nature. The world wars, centuries of armed conflict and conquest and sexual immorality are an expression of their true genetic self breaking out from the bonds of Christianity. They are not genetically compatible with an Abrahamic religion. This is a rough idea that needs to be fleshed out more, but I think it’s true.
Yakov
January 11, 2017 at 8:25 PM
are ancient nations. There is over a billion Chinese, but only around 14 million Jews with only part of them being Jewishly aware and counted as belonging to the historical Jewish nation. It’s legitimate to wonder where did that billion of Jews go? Did they go away looking for ‘higher status’ among illiterate proles of the ancient and medieval world? This is a new theory Lion and Prolier have coauthored. The theory is fantastic.
There is some truth to it, though. It’s hard to find fulfillment in Judaism as a religion for an unlearned individual, as commenters on this blog amply illustrate. Hassidic movement tried to breath a new life into the masses which felt alienated by the learning section of the community.
I wanted to write more, but I have to run to work. Today is shaping up like a good day for me. Got three service calls already: 1. Fujitsu ductless. 2.Trane central split heat pump. 3. McQuay PTAC. Thus is the diversity that I like.
Yakov
January 11, 2017 at 7:29 AM
OT: For Yakov and Lion.
It’s an interesting thread about persecution, migration and what people do for a living but I am of the opinion of late that most of these stories of persecution are basically fairy tales, especially the ones that go back to the ancient world. Basically, I don’t believe that either Christian or Jewish persecution was ever a thing of the past. The persecution tales were invented as a kind of salve for living with a distasteful reputation, of which many groups had, especially in the ancient world.
Let’s think about why this is the case. Take the Roman Empire. The RE was not in any way “liberal” in the modern sense of the word. They never did multiculturalism, diversity, rights, respect for minorities or any liberties. They were efficient and practical conquerors. If they extended citizenship to a conquered province, then it was usually only to the leadership of the conquered people, never the peasantry, and done so for practical administrative reasons: peasants are more likely to be docile if ruled by people like themselves. Those who rule over said peasants get a cut of the tribute for their cooperation. Nothing more.
The basis of Roman rule was obedience with the threat of genocide, punctuated with actual genocide. The fruits of the empire extend to those who are citizens, of which distinctions between those who are not citizens are just as easy to make as those who are citizens. When or why is persecution, then, ever necessary in this arrangement? Who would the Romans ever need to “persecute” as a normal function of their rule? Really…no one.
Because the fruits of Empire went to those who were powerful, the choice for most, either citizen or non-citizen, was some kind of day-labor peasantry. Those who did not want to be peasants, or part of the military, or were not members of the aristocracy, could only get ahead if they were doing something unpleasant or disreputable. Given that Jewish business acumen was well-known even in the Roman world, it helps to ask, what exactly Jews were doing in business of that time?
Anything truly substantial or profitable would’ve been owned by a Roman: Grain harvesting and shipping; mining; weapons manufacture; shipbuilding; even banking and bookkeeping would’ve been largely Roman, just for the sake of trust. What is left that would’ve been substantial? Selling clay cups in the bazaar? No. Slavery? Well, yes. The expanding Empire was collecting prisoners in a foreign land. The army could only capture and hold so many people, and the solution was not to bring the whole army back to Rome just to sell prisoners. So, caravans of Jews would follow the Roman Army at a safe distance and pay the commanders to take the prisoners off their hands. The prisoners would then be sold as slaves, prostitutes and gladiators.
Of course, neither all Jews nor only Jews did this, but Jews were primarily more successful than others in this practice…hence the acumen of the Jewish business mind was burnished, since this is effectively international trade with all of the weights, measures, accounting, market fluctuations, etc,…as well as the distasteful reputation of engaging in that kind of business. Jews were looked upon the same way as whores and actors and Christians probably looked upon the same way because of the early Judaic roots.
None of this, however, is persecution. That some Christians died being fed to the lions or that some Jews were maligned for being Jews, does not constitute “persecution.” This is just a story Jewish mothers tell their children or later Christian rulers talking about the “martyrs” fed to the lions. Why is this false? Because any powerful empire playing host to a truly troublesome minority, be they Christian or Jewish, would simply wipe them out…and there is nothing the minority could do about it. Hence, there was never any persecution of Jews or Christians, outside of harsh language. Thus, the idea that the Jewish mind was burnished by survival and movement from place to place due to dodging successive Holocausts is an absurdity.
In fact, the Holocaust is really not a “persecution” of the Jews either. The Holocaust was an unsuccessful genocide. It was unsuccessful, not because the Germans did not know how to efficiently exterminate the Jews or the that the “Jewish mind” simply out-clevered the Germans, but because the Germans lost the war. Had the Germans won, every territory they controlled would’ve been cleansed of Jews.
If Anti-Semitism and anti-Christianism was truly as strong in the ancient world as anti-Semitism was in Germany in the 1930’s, then why didn’t the ancients simply genocide these troublesome populations, when such genocides never would have batted an eye and could never be defended against? Hence, these persecutions never happened. Hence, whatever cognitive effects such persecutions had on the subjected populations could never have materialized.
Fire away, boys.
map
January 11, 2017 at 9:32 PM
You live and learn, truly. Just as I was thinking that the theory that Jews had acquired their IQ by shedding the less capable members of their society who left in search of higher status among the lowest classes of the Gentile world, a new and more fantastic theory has been hatched. Now there was no persecution of the Jews, because had their been persecution the Jews would have been whipped out. They, Jews still exist, ergo there was no real persecution ever. Holocaust was a genocide, not a persecution. Nuremberg laws, the pale of settlement, discrimination in all areas of life, confiscation of property, ghettos, expulsions, forced conversions – never happened. Destruction of the Second and First Temple, Asssyrian and Babylonian captivity never happened, nor did the bondage in Egypt.
I give this theory the top pruze as the most bizzare yet proposed by commenters on this blog.
But it gets better. Since there was never any persecution, why do so many hate the Jews? Now this is realy neat: the Jews apparently were the major slave traders of the Roman world, because these Romans, while being very capable of running other aspects of their vast empire, couldn’t, just couldn’t, mange it’s slave trade. This was just too much for the Romans and here is where the Jews came in. So the Jew was a slave trader par excellence and this is the source of anti-semitism. This is truly amazing. Live and learn, truly.
Yakov
January 12, 2017 at 7:33 AM
That one didn’t happen.
snorlaxwp
January 12, 2017 at 11:16 AM
Fake history? Ten commandments are fake commandments? Fake religion? Fake people?
Yakov
January 12, 2017 at 11:58 AM
Does slave trade select for high IQ then? Turks handled it without the Jews, so did the rednecks, even the Africans, not known for their genius, traded slaves all access the continent. But not the Romans, oh no, they couldn’t handle this lucrative business without the Jewish prowess.
Yakov
January 12, 2017 at 12:04 PM
Yakov,
The component of Roman slavery of the kind that I proposed was probably a low-margin business. The purchase of prisoners from Roman commanders and the sale of said prisoners in Rome was not some windfall profit. Roman commanders gouged people on price on their end and buyers in Rome drove a hard bargain. The Jews managed to deftly strike a balance between these elements and did so better than anyone else, but this component of the slave business was probably seen as distasteful and less profitable than other areas, like butchering live cattle at a slaughterhouse as opposed to buying meat in plastic at the store.
The Nuremberg laws were part of the Nazi genocide, as were confiscations of property and ghettos. The last large-scale forced conversions and expulsions were under the Spanish, and that was because the Jews were actively aiding and abetting the Muslims in the ruling of Spain. That’s not a persecution. That’s losing the business end of a war. I don’t know about the Settlement of the Pale. Was someone plotting against the Czar?
What’s so difficult to understand? Most of the world most of the time is composed of a small elite ruling class and a vast hoard of peasants. If you are not a member of this elite, then you are some kind of day-labor peasant. If you don’t want to do day-labor peasantry, then you either join the military, the priesthood or engage in some kind of distasteful or semi-criminal or outright criminal activity. Highwaymen and usurers are going to be maligned people. That is the price to be paid to avoid outright peasantry, hence why certain groups chose to do that.
But, again, none of this is persecution. I remember hearing Chuck Schumer effectively say that the reason why Jews became bankers was because they were not allowed to own land and farm it. Barring the question as to why being a farmer is better than a banker, the only people who “owned” land were the nobles. So, Schumer effectively said that Jews became bankers because they were not allowed to become nobles. It is this sort of unreflective nonsense that gets outed over time as stories get investigated.
Yakov, think of your case. You’ve stated on numerous occasions that you routinely work for cash to under-report your income to the tax authorities. You’ve even stated that paying those exorbitant New York taxes is no way for a Jew to live. If you had to flee to Israel to avoid prosecution for tax evasion, then what would your descendants most likely do: tell everybody that you had to flee from America because of crimes you committed, or tell everybody that you were an innocent craftsman who faced anti-Semitism and had to leave? Which makes them look better? Repeat these stories often enough and it gets called “history.”
Everybody wants to think that a Faberge egg possessed by their family implies a Romanov connection, and not the actions of a thieving, part-time prostitute and scullery maid who stole from the palace.
map
January 12, 2017 at 3:37 PM
Nevertheless, anti-Semitism was real. Christianity was not accepting of alternative religions.
Lion of the Blogosphere
January 12, 2017 at 6:28 PM
I’m not endorsing map’s comment (which I tbh haven’t read). From your description I wouldn’t endorse it either. Just quibbling on that one point.
You’re a man of faith, which I respect, so I don’t expect you’ll be convinced, but the consensus among archaeologists is that the evidence conclusively shows that the Jews were never enslaved in Egypt, so a non-believer in supernatural phenomena like myself would call that fake history. On the other hand, the Babylonian and Assyrian captivities are confirmed by the archaeological record (not exactly as described – real history.
The Ten Commandments are really commandments; their provenance is a matter of opinion. And, of course, the Jews are a real people, as indicated both by reams of DNA evidence and common sense.
And culture too: if the Mormons tomorrow asserted that they’re “a people,” I’d consider that a reasonable assertion. Ethnicity is just a trailing indicator of culture; in the case of the Jews it’s genetic proof they’ve had a distinctive culture for 2000+ years. If Mormons are still around and still an insular minority centuries from now, they’ll be an ethnicity too.
Back to Egypt, there have been found enormous quantities of ancient Egyptian writings on clay and stone tablets describing all sorts of things, but perhaps their most favorite topic was slaves. They maintained extensive bookkeeping records of the slaves they owned, the transactions where they bought and sold slaves, and the race and provenance of said slaves.
There are many documents where the Egyptians describe the languages, customs and religions of their slaves. But there has never been found any Egyptian document from prior to classical antiquity which makes reference to Jews or Judaism in any context, slave, free, domestic or foreign.
The Egyptians did take Semitic slaves from the Levant, but we know from their descriptions, and also artifacts from slave dwellings demonstrating the same, that these slaves had a polytheistic religion and ate pork.
We also have very many Egyptian historical writings, both official government annals and diary-type writings of private individuals, none of which mention anything resembling the events of Exodus. The approximate timeline of Exodus places it as occurring during one of Egypt’s greatest periods of prosperity and territorial expansion, and there’s no evidence suggesting any significant calamity befalling Egypt during that time.
The earliest evidence for the existence of Jews or Judaism that’ve been found are settlements from the 1100’s B.C. in the Biblical kingdom of Judah. These are thought to belong to the original Jews because, unlike the surrounding peoples, no pig bones are found in the remains of their meals, although their religion remained polytheistic.
From all appearances, this was an indigenous phenomenon; already-existing villages converted to this proto-Judaism without there being any indication of the violent or nonviolent arrival of an outside group. Over the next several centuries more settlements in Biblical Judah and Israel stopped eating pork, and polytheistic idols gradually disappeared from such settlements. This appears to have still been a generally nonviolent process not related to mass migration.
By the 600’s B.C. monotheistic Judaism or proto-Judaism definitely was the religion all throughout Judah and Israel, and we begin to find clear accounts in the writings of the surrounding civilizations to interactions with those kingdoms and their people. Archaeological evidence proves that, in 587 B.C., the Babylonians destroyed Jerusalem and deported its population to Babylon. And so on and so forth.
The TL;DR is that archaeologists’ consensus is that the enslavement in Egypt didn’t happen, the conquest of Canaan probably didn’t happen so quickly or violently, but the stuff after that can either be confirmed accurate or is plausible and probably true, albeit exaggerated in places; it’s thought those parts of the Tanakh were written roughly contemporaneously with the events they describe.
Probably more stones have been upturned to research this subject than any other; the 18-mid20C British and other Europeans, largely devout Christians and many Jews as well, spent many fortunes in money and man-hours looking for artifacts that would prove the veracity of the Biblical story of Exodus, but, to their disappointment, their findings only made it ever less plausible.
It’s always possible archaeology is politicized and agenda-driven, like climatology is, but I’m skeptical. It seems to be a fairly hard and objective science, that remains mainly focused on finding new hatefacts about the achievements of successful civilizations, and not so much cooing over savages 12,000 years inferior, as anthropologists do.
Leftists hate Judaism, but they hate Christianity more,[1] and Christian theology is compatible with parts of the Old Testament being untrue. So if there were a leftist conspiracy among archaeologists I’d expect it’d be focused on denying the historicity of Jesus, and/or even softer targets like Jesus’ disciples/entourage, the various saints, etc. And I expect it would be more commonly known (beyond nerds like me) that archaeologists believe the Exodus story didn’t happen.
And, irrelevant to the believer it may be, IMO nixing the Biblical conquest of Canaan improves the secular moral case for the Jews having a right to the land. Reading the OT and discounting the God stuff, it’s an account of an extremely sadistic, genocidal extermination campaign waged against the indigenous population. Of course the moral values of the second millennium B.C. are pretty far removed from today’s, but it’s still not a good look.
Whereas the narrative the record suggests – that today’s Jews are themselves the descendants of the people indigenous to the land, and Judaism is their own indigenous religion – is an infinitely more politically correct origin story to have.
[1] Whether leftists hate Christianity or Jews more depends on the country, but they definitely hate Christianity more than Judaism, except in Israel where, obviously, they hate Judaism more than Christianity.
snorlaxwp
January 12, 2017 at 4:31 PM
The stories in Exodus are all just stories, not history. As are most of the stuff in the later books of the Bible. Very little true history in there.
Lion of the Blogosphere
January 12, 2017 at 6:32 PM
Oops, the last line of my second paragraph should’ve been: On the other hand, the Babylonian and Assyrian captivities are confirmed by the archaeological record (not exactly as described, but close enough) – real history.
Lion, can you enable us to edit posts? It’s a nice thing to have. I’m a web developer; I volunteer to help out if the reason you haven’t is you’re not sure how. 🙂
snorlaxwp
January 12, 2017 at 4:39 PM
This blog is hosted at wordpress.com, I have no control over adding new features.
Lion of the Blogosphere
January 12, 2017 at 6:33 PM
‘ If you had to flee to Israel to avoid prosecution for tax evasion, then what would your descendants most likely do: tell everybody that you had to flee from America because of crimes you committed, or tell everybody that you were an innocent craftsman who faced anti-Semitism and had to leave? Which makes them look better? Repeat these stories often enough and it gets called “history.”’.
Map, you don’t only invent the past, you invent the future! You are amazing! I think you have just been instrumental in creating a new phrase ‘fake future’. Listen, neither you nor I, nor anybody else can know what my descendants will say. You are saying that they will invent American anti-semitism to make their progenitor look better, I’m saying pay attention to my comments and don’t engage in inventing fake past, present or future. The bottom line is that the Jews have high IQ whether they acquired it by engaging in slave trade and usery, studying Talmud, playing chess or as an act of the Divine Providence will not be settled by us. Since you don’t think that there were any forced conversions, pogroms or persecution of the Jews since the times of the Spanish exile, all I can do is refer you to the study of history. My schedule doesn’t allow me enough time in engage in this long discussion. Maybe Lion has time, but not me.
Yakov
January 12, 2017 at 7:30 PM
I don’t know much about archeology and how good it is and how much they can know. I just don’t think that guys digging in the sand and building castles in the air can be a convincing voice in contradicting the Bible. They are an arrogant lot, though. Have an air of superiority, like Lion. Look, if the Jews listened to everyone who came alone do dis them, they would have disappeared a long time ago. What wisdom does the world have to offer that can compare the Bible and the Talmud? Whatever they have is like a monkey compared to a human. I think some German philosopher said that that, I don’t remember his name, but it started with a ‘G’, that I’m pretty sure of. I would Google him, but I got to go work out in the Prospect Park, the weather is amazing now, so who wants to Google German philosophers in such weather? Gotta be a masochist or something.
Lion, stop watching the idiot box and come to the park to work out.
Yakov
January 12, 2017 at 7:46 PM
Yakov,
You miss my point. Remember, I also do not believe that Romans systemically fed Christians to the lions to get rid of them. Did that happen to some Christians? Yes. Was it systemic and a matter of policy? No. Why? Because had the Romans had such a policy, Christianity would have been stamped out. When Rome became Christianized, it was then useful to rewrite the stories of the Martyrs and their persecution by the Roman heathens.
I think much of the Jewish persecution stories operate in the same way.
(Of course, this discounts genuine divine intervention in the survival of the Jewish and Christian in the face of powerful empires. We will hold that aside for the sake of argument.)
Pogroms, persecutions, forced conversions and other lurid stories paint a picture of Goldilocks victimhood: important enough to warrant these actions, but somehow not important enough to get rid of outright. Maybe the early Christians and the Jews simply did not factor as much in the everyday lives and governance of the territories in which they lived.
map
January 12, 2017 at 10:33 PM
The Sephardim of Spain had a more glorious history that the Ashkenazim, pre-modern times. They were the consummate Jews — the Sephardim had their hands on everything, including the military. Sephardic Jews actually fought on the battlefield with their Muslim brothers in Spain. Most of the Jews who fought in the American Revolution were also Sephardim.
There was Maimonides, Disraeli, Spinoza and Cardozo — all very impressive Jews. What did the Ashkenazim beget that was of equal value? Einstein, Brandeis, Marx…Ayan Rand? These were proles in comparison.
I say the Sephardim was the more talented.
JS
January 12, 2017 at 10:51 PM
Map, mate, you are pulling my leg, right? The Romans destroyed the Temple. The Jews fought many wars against them, they sent Jews into exile. Masada fighters preferred to commit suicide rather then fall into Roman hands. What does that tell us? There Roman coins commemorating the destruction of out Temple with inscriptions ‘Judea Capta’, there is a depiction of the Jews going into exile on the Titus Ark in Rome. What are you talking about mate? Roman oppression and demands for idolatrous sacrifices in the Temple had caused those wars.
Jews could have gotten alone with both the Greeks and the Romans had it not been for their oppression. Both of these nations are dead, whipped out from the faith of the earth, but the Jews are back to their ancestral land. The history has ruled on this matter and the case is closed but not sealed.
All because of the stupidity and venality of the Gentiles, by the way. We Jews don’t have any culture besides our religion and could have benefited by taking the good from the Greeks and the Romans. Instead, because of their oppression we still talk of them as if they are our enemies till this very day. The certainly were very great in their own way, but their greatest became irrelevant to us because of this deadly struggle.
Yakov
January 13, 2017 at 12:42 AM
Yakov,
The Romans demanded of Jews the same that they demanded of any other conquered people, including the Greeks. Do you think the Greeks were not oppressed as well? But they did acquiesce eventually. And both Romans and Greeks are still around. Did the Romans burn down some temple in Judea? Sure…I’m sure they burned down lots of temples in their conquered territories, usually because the Temple is the largest and most ornate building in the area.
But this is still not persecution.
Getting your rebellions put down or getting punched around for quarrelsome behavior is also not persecution.
Frankly, these stories of heroic Jews battling Rome sound exaggerated. Why do we not hear the same about the Greeks, of heroic Greeks constantly battling Romans? We don’t…and the Greeks are still here with their language and culture intact.
map
January 13, 2017 at 3:56 PM
Map, mate, you are pulling my leg, right? The Romans destroyed the Temple. The Jews fought many wars against them, they sent Jews into exile. Masada fighters preferred to commit suicide rather then fall into Roman hands. What does that tell us? There Roman coins commemorating the destruction of out Temple with inscriptions ‘Judea Capta’, there is a depiction of the Jews going into exile on the Titus Ark in Rome.
If American antisemites hadn’t wasted decades making idiotic comments about Jews such as those by map and focused their energy on immigration America would have had whites only immigration by Reagan’s second term.
The Romans demanded of Jews the same that they demanded of any other conquered people, including the Greeks. Do you think the Greeks were not oppressed as well? But they did acquiesce eventually.
The Jews could not worship a Caesar as god because it would have been blasphemy according to any interpretation of the Torah. The Greeks were free to pretend god governed earth from the Imperial Palaces of Rome because the Hellenes barely had faith in their own deities.
The Hellenes were borderline atheists, the Jews were religious. That alone explains why Jews could not practice Emperor worship while Greeks could.
The Undiscovered Jew
January 13, 2017 at 8:11 PM
UJ,
What is your point? I am not arguing that Jews should never have resisted Roman rule if they felt they did not want it. All I am saying is that Roman’s swatting the Jews around had no more enmity than other people they swatted around.
The Greeks still carry grudges against the Italians?
map
January 16, 2017 at 4:01 AM
By this I meant…the Romans had no more enmity for the Jews they swatted around than they did for any other enemy they swatted around.
If the Jews are still speaking about these people who are long dead as an enemy, then isn’t that a problem.
map
January 16, 2017 at 4:06 AM
Why are we talking about The Jews in a post about a Puerto Rican terrorist?
That said, yes, the Orthodox Jews still harbor resentment and hatred against the Romans, at least they did when I was in Hebrew school, and if that hasn’t changed in 2000 years, I don’t think another 35 will make a difference.
Lion of the Blogosphere
January 16, 2017 at 9:07 AM
Thanks to everyone who commented here, I always learn so much when I go through the comments section. Yakov is still my favorite commenter on this site, despite the fact that I am a non-Jew and secular at that. I have traveled a bit and love Paris, Prague as well as many other places in Europe and am sorry to hear that Paris and London have become shadows of their former selves.
Recently my wife and I visited Victoria, BC and found it to be a city that has lost is soul. Someone mentioned he woes of people who live in urban settings, I agree and think that the problem of the homeless is one of the most serious facing the modern world, way more than the threat of Muslims taking over the world.
Lion this thread is one of the reasons I like your site.
Oden's Raven
January 12, 2017 at 7:38 PM
Thanks mate. It’s pretty unbelievable what they had turned Europe into.
Yakov
January 12, 2017 at 7:56 PM
Speaking of the Japanese (and apparently now Chinese tourists) and Paris, they have this thing called “Paris syndrome” where their idealized image of Paris clashes with reality when they visit:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-08-14/the-paris-syndrome-drives-chinese-tourists-away
Tom
January 14, 2017 at 3:27 PM