Is it a good thing if Harvard becomes 40% Asian?
We assume that if Harvard stopped discriminating against Asians, the student body would very quickly become 40% Asian. U.C. Berkeley is 42% Asian.
Harvard obviously thinks this would be a bad thing for Harvard, otherwise they wouldn’t discriminate against Asians.
But would it be a good thing for the nation as a whole? I say yes. Anything that reduces the prestige and influence of elite liberal Ivy League professors is a good thing for American. Forcing Harvard to treat Asians fairly would, maybe, force a reckoning about the truth of HBD.
I predict that, if Harvard does become 40% Asian, it will cause it to have a loss of prestige among rich white kids, who will seek out less Asian schools. This dynamic happened with Stuyvesant High School in Manhattan, After it became almost all Asian, affluent white people pulled their kids out and sent them to whiter private schools. Or they moved to white suburbs. Just about the only white kids left at Stuyvesant are the children of poor Russian immigrants.
This would be divine justice on those liberal elite Harvard professors who ruined white middle-class schools by forcing black kids into them in the name of desegregation.
Lion of the Blogosphere 
“But would it be a good thing for the nation as a whole? I say yes.”
No. Asians are a coming disaster for America. Anything that elevates them in terms of wealth and power is a bad, bad, bad idea. The last thing we need is more Asians among our ruling class.
peterike
August 3, 2017 at 10:12 AM
The whole point is that that would ruin Harvard–it would no longer produce the “ruling class”–places like Bennington would.
Skeptic
August 3, 2017 at 10:22 AM
MPT – Japan does not tell its less gifted citizens “You must compete, not only with your own co-ethnics’ cognitive elites, but with the elites from everywhere on Earth.” Maybe they hate their subjects less. Maybe they’re more moral. Or maybe they realize that when people are backed up in a corner with no options, some might lay down and die, but others might decide to take some of the people who’ve screwed them down with them.
Dubious
August 3, 2017 at 12:19 PM
Japanese are racist and mostly on a healthy way.
Yakov
August 3, 2017 at 8:07 PM
Asians are only about 6% or so of the population. If whites with all the opportunities are so worried about such a small % of population, then maybe the prole whites in the Ohio have the right idea on what to do with opoids. Can’t compete, just check out altogether.
mpt
August 3, 2017 at 10:29 AM
“Asians are only about 6% or so of the population.”
And the ruling class is 0.01% of the population. 6% is still millions of Asians, plenty enough to cause a lot of trouble.
“then maybe the prole whites in the Ohio have the right idea on what to do with opoids. Can’t compete, just check out altogether.”
Go F yourself you white hating dirtbag.
peterike
August 3, 2017 at 11:09 AM
Lots of Asian students are immigrants who specifically come to the US to attend college so the population from which they are drawn is much larger than what you suggest. Prole whites would be a much larger proportion of Harvard students if the top-performing among them just bothered to apply to Harvard.
Maz
August 3, 2017 at 11:33 AM
Highlighting internal prog contradictions is always good.
The ethic of working long hours and living well below your means for years in order to get a bigger payoff down the road is, according to separate prog factions, either:
1) proof of immigrants’/Tiger Moms’ superior values, or
2) a tool of the patriarchy to further the wage gap
Progs need to hash this out amongst themselves, and exposing SWPL kids to more competition forces them to take sides instead of virtue-signaling for everything Good from their segregated, sheltered perch.
Fiddlesticks
August 3, 2017 at 11:38 AM
Asians are just another heavily subsidized group. Because of EO 11625, their business are classified as Minority Disadvantaged so they get free money from the government to start them and free contracts from the government to sell stuff.
Of course it’s easy to “Tiger Mom” under those circumstances. The government creates an environment for Asian families where all their kids have to worry about is one thing. Under those circumstances, success is easy.
Besides, I am sure Asia needs their brain power.
map
August 3, 2017 at 12:18 PM
“6% is still millions of Asians, plenty enough to cause a lot of trouble”
I love French Speaking Québec, because it’s the only place in North America where a man can find a normal woman and East Asians are not very common — is this a coincidence, or maybe because America has out of control immigration, degenerate gold diggers and a whole litany of other pathologies?
JS
August 3, 2017 at 12:39 PM
“Prole whites would be a much larger proportion of Harvard students if the top-performing among them just bothered to apply to Harvard.”
False.
A lot of people don’t seem to realize how hard it is to get into Harvard as a white non-legacy whose peer group doesn’t include lots of other people who know how to get into Harvard.
Take a white male valedictorian from a public high school from flyover country with unremarkable parents, a perfect SAT score, and solid extracurriculars — President of some club, involved in a few others, made it to state finals in football or basketball — and he’s got no shot at admission to Harvard. Not even close.
How many people with prole backgrounds do you think vastly exceed that measure?
Wency
August 3, 2017 at 4:07 PM
“How many people with prole backgrounds do you think vastly exceed that measure?”
There was a kid like that at Columbia recently who committed suicide because he felt he wasn’t as smart as the other students:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4184840/Frightening-wave-suicides-Columbia-University.html
“A month later, Taylor Gilpin Wallace, a freshman from Missouri, quit school, moved back home and hanged himself in his basement.
‘You don’t know how badly I want to jump out that window right now,’ Wallace, said to his mother, days before his death.
Wallace, 18, who suffered from depression, was the valedictorian of his high school class of just 73 students.
‘He didn’t have a lot of competition at Brookfield’ High School, his mother said.
‘At one point he said to me, ‘I don’t fit in here. These students I’m surrounded with are so much smarter than me and so much better than me,” his mother told the Post.”
Tom
August 3, 2017 at 5:31 PM
What’s so great about getting into Harvard? White people have a big problem right now and it definately isn’t access to education. White people need to stop worrying about getting into Harvard, get a regular in demand degree from a regular uni, and start making babies, lots of them.
DataExplorer
August 3, 2017 at 7:06 PM
“‘He didn’t have a lot of competition at Brookfield’ High School, his mother said.”
I was the only student at my mediocre public HS with straight As the year before leaving for a competitive private school. People in public schools have no clue how much more competitive the good privates are compared to the public schools.
Curle
August 4, 2017 at 2:14 AM
Affirmative action isn’t the only issue that has an impact on enrollment at Harvard. Legacy candidates are important to the school since they are more likely to become donors. Asians are probably the least likely to be donors so that’s at least one other reason they are not preferred at Harvard.
Mike Street Station
August 3, 2017 at 10:21 AM
Another interesting thought experiment would be to speculate what would happen if Harvard did the opposite, and drop any pretence of meritocracy and just admitted only the children of the wealthy and well connected. As with the Stuyvesant example, there are liberal arts colleges for dumb rich kids so there is already a point of comparison.
Ed
August 3, 2017 at 10:41 AM
Listen, Lion, who the hell comes to America to be among 40% Asians? This is a disaster.
On the other hand, discrimination in college admissions is no good. The only solution is for the Asians to stay in Asia. This is what’s good for America. 2-3% is OK, but not more.
Yakov
August 3, 2017 at 10:50 AM
French Speaking Canada has a small East Asian population (and also a small population of immigrants from the Indus peninsula).
Less than 1% in the province and less than 5% in Montrayal.
Voilà!
JS
August 3, 2017 at 8:12 PM
Lion, I agree that the primary goal with respect to the elite universities is to lower their status and thus reduce their power, not make sure they treat whites fairly (which would reinforce their status and power). We need to make the current elite universities powerless and irrelevant.
Andrew E.
August 3, 2017 at 11:05 AM
Which is not to say we don’t need an elite or a university system to train and prepare our elite. We absolutely do. But we need an elite that is virtuous and that adheres to truth instead of lies (and is mostly white of course).
Andrew E.
August 3, 2017 at 11:20 AM
A “natural aristocracy,” as Thomas Jefferson (and Leo Strauss) would have it. (But if HBD is true, a meritocracy will converge on a hereditary aristocracy.)
Anthony
August 3, 2017 at 1:06 PM
The best way to kill off the prestigious name brand schools is to make it illegal to hire someone based on where they went to school or the connections they made there. Meritocratic hiring for jobs is much more important than meritocratic admissions to universities.
Magnavox
August 3, 2017 at 1:31 PM
Yes, on a resume you can put down what degree you earned, but not where you earned it from.
ScarletNumber
August 3, 2017 at 7:46 PM
I wouldn’t want even that. There should be some current and objective measure of your skills.
Magnavox
August 3, 2017 at 8:40 PM
“We need to make the current elite universities powerless and irrelevant.”
I fully agree. Any suggestions?
Lewis Medlock
August 3, 2017 at 6:51 PM
Not elect the guy that won’t shut up about how awesome he is for going to an ivy league school?
Magnavox
August 3, 2017 at 8:41 PM
I’m not sure that Harvard would get to 40% Asian. UC Berkeley draws its undergraduate students from California. The Bay Area has a large, highly educated Asian population that are very focused on sending their children to top schools like UC Berkeley and Standford. Standford is just too expensive for many Bay Area Asian families and the families make too much money for financial aide, so many of them opt for UC Berkeley which is much less expensive. Also Asians are more likely to opt for engineering or computer science majors and UC Berkley is a top school in those fields, which Harvard is not.
I know lots of Asian parents. They dream of sending their kids to Standford, another strong engineering/computer science school, but I have never heard any of them mention Harvard. Maybe Asians on the East Coast are different.
mikeca
August 3, 2017 at 11:14 AM
Value transference-Liberal centers in the Northeast are off limits to East Asians who want join the elite — the reason having to do with their verbal ability. Harvard is a moot school for these strivers, because HYP are schools to groom VT parasites, who are adept in speaking.
JS
August 3, 2017 at 12:33 PM
This is a topic of its very own. I grew up in this world you speak of. A HS in my district was a notorious Asian high school, I.e. 70+ valedictorians and waitlists to take AP courses.
First off, Asians worship brands. Nike sold in China is 2x what it is in the states. So most – not all – Asians view the Ivies for its branding. The intelligent Asian parents are more meticulous and you are spot on with your observation. They actually value what the degree delivers. It’s not an end in itself, however; these same Asians expect their children to go to graduate school, as many of my high school friends have (MDs and JDs). Which is why they can’t justify the down payment in a bachelors.
It’s a certain social class that values monopolized labor over network access, I.e. Value transference. A nobler one, I think.
A Dilettante
August 3, 2017 at 9:10 PM
Questions the media will never ask.
* What % of Americans are attending China’s top universities?
* What % of Americans work in India at Indian technology companies?
On the other hand, if the Ivies are forced to stop Asian “discrimination,” maybe it would finally attract some attention to Asian test-prep cheating, which is rampant. Like so many kinds of immigrant fraud activity, nobody pays attention to it. But if it really starts affecting the ability of Brooklyn and Eliot to get into Harvard, somebody might finally notice.
peterike
August 3, 2017 at 11:15 AM
You are correct- it would be a benefit to the country to distribute the best resources to the best students.
Harvard would suffer because, while the world would get one more $500K heart surgeon, they wouldnt get a bunch of cheeseball wastrels who have disproportional societal influence to their actual accomplishments.
And alums woudlnt be able to cheers themselves over the “homeless to Harvard” stories.
Lion o' the Turambar
August 3, 2017 at 11:29 AM
It is an open question whether these institutions truly are discriminating against Asians. Asians have much higher failout and dropout rates than whites with the same high school grades/scores. This pattern repeats again in graduate/medical/law schools.
Unless there’s a law that says institutions can only judge by test scores, it is at least possible that a lot of admissions departments are just good at their jobs and don’t explain exactly what metrics they’re using.
bobbybobbob
August 3, 2017 at 11:31 AM
The 6 year graduation rate for undergrads at UC Berkely is 94% for Asians and 91% for Whites.
I’m not sure were you get the idea that the drop out rate for Asians is higher.
mikeca
August 3, 2017 at 12:09 PM
“It is an open question whether these institutions truly are discriminating against Asians.”
As a parent living in a nice suburb of New York City, I would have to say that it’s pretty obvious just from simple observation that Ivy League schools discriminate against East Asians. Even if you aren’t stereotypical violin-playing, grade-grubbing grind, you have an uphill battle if you are a Lee or a Kim or a Chen.
fortaleza84
August 3, 2017 at 3:35 PM
It shouldn’t be viewed as an Asian issue. If you don’t want the Asian-Americans here that’s a different issue. If you don’t want the US to become less white, that’s a different issue. These are worthwhile discussion points though. This is about meritocracy, and shouldn’t the smartest be given the best education?
If you can’t get into Harvard, Caltech, or Princeton on merit maybe you should go work in a coal mine, where you are more valuable.
DaddyFrank
August 3, 2017 at 11:33 AM
I once heard a story about the college admissions process from an individual who worked in the admissions office of a prestigious Ivy League school (not Harvard). He said that, when a legacy applicant (i.e., the child of alumni) asked for financial aid, the parents were regarded as failures unless they had purposely chosen a low-paying occupation such as teaching or the ministry. Their alumni were otherwise expected to be able to afford the huge costs of four years at their university!
Black Death
August 3, 2017 at 11:45 AM
The reason for favoring alumni families is to shake down more donations for the college, so of course admission departments would get pissed at non-successful graduates trying to horn in.
Richard
August 3, 2017 at 11:59 AM
Well this makes perfect sense. The whole purpose of an Ivy League education is to make enough money. If you can’t afford tuition for your children, you done fucked up.
ScarletNumber
August 3, 2017 at 7:48 PM
Isn’t UC Berkeley viewed as a prestigious school? Not Harvard level, it wasn’t in the first place – basically remained the same before it rose to 40% and now. The negative press stuff is SJW stuff. Doesn’t that argue the 40% Asians where the great majority are not beating up people with bike locks an argument that Asians are not harmful to Harvard’s prestige? At least not to the point being framed here
Dreamer
August 3, 2017 at 11:49 AM
If the republican party was smart, which it isn’t, they would use blacks and asians as a 1-2 punch to attack progressives. Blacks on the low end to be the chosen group of poor people that the government has an obligation to help over any other ethnic group or refugee. Asians on the high end for “diversity” and because they can actually do IQ intensive jobs.
ASF
August 3, 2017 at 12:00 PM
“But would it be a good thing for the nation as a whole? I say yes.”
Lion’s only saying this because he finds Asian girls the most attractive. He should just move to the HBD paradise of Japan and give up on the states.
DdR
August 3, 2017 at 1:00 PM
Nah I like blonde Mormon girls like Katherine Heigl.
Lion of the Blogosphere
August 3, 2017 at 3:31 PM
I like Huckabee’s daughter. She is just my type and if she wasn’t married I think I would have a chance.
ScarletNumber
August 3, 2017 at 7:49 PM
Lion, you should move to Park City, UT
Simba of the Blogosphere
August 5, 2017 at 8:26 AM
Japanese women aren’t really all that pretty. They’re not fat, that is the main thing.
CamelCaseRob
August 3, 2017 at 5:30 PM
I’ve often thought that maybe asian women are more attractive on average, largely because of weight. But they’re certainly way more tightly grouped around that average and underrepresented among the most attractive.
Magnavox
August 3, 2017 at 8:38 PM
no. it’s a horrible thing. but it wouldn’t happen if the SAT and other such tests were the sole criterion.
asians are strivers/overachievers. flynn documented this. their academic achievement exceeds what their IQs predict by a country mile. asian americans are the smartest of their home countries yet they still aren’t that smart.
the only reason asians are able to do this is the US education system rewards attributes other than IQ, like striverishness.
UCB is in california. california may have more asians than the rest of the country combined as far as i know.
what fraction of those scoring in the 99th percentile on the new SAT V + Q are asian? far far less than 40%.
can’t find the data, but in 2005 asians scored an average of 1091, whites 1068.
the wise leader kim jong trump
August 3, 2017 at 2:09 PM
College admissions should be based on a prediction of junior and senior year grades, adjusted for subject difficulty (easier said than done I imagine).
But then employment should be based on similar projections of job performance, not where you went to school or who you met there.
Magnavox
August 3, 2017 at 4:00 PM
american “grades” are almost unique. short term and idiosyncratic not only to the school but also to the professor.
what admissions should be based on is cumulative objective nationally standardized exam scores at graduation. bit admission to ug (as predicted by SAT etc.) and to g.
in the US the closest to this is GRE subject tests.
what would you find?
you’d find SAT correlates with GRE subject test scores almost perfectly!
but grades don’t.
obviously the SAT and GRE general, GMAT, and LSAT correlate almost perfectly.
the wise leader kim jong trump
August 3, 2017 at 4:29 PM
“bit” = “both”
the wise leader kim jong trump
August 3, 2017 at 5:11 PM
The SAT is designed to predict first year grades. There’s nothing inherently worthwhile about any test or G, so going down that rabbit hole and basing admissions solely on tests is pointless and dangerous.
A school should give high grades to what it values academically, and then select based on a rational prediction of who will get the highest grades.
Magnavox
August 3, 2017 at 6:39 PM
i said “other than”. i should have said, “in addition to”.
if IQ tests like the SAT, ACT, etc. and/or other cumulative objective exams were the sole criterion (as they are in almost all other countries) the composition of elite college student bodies in the US would change a lot. at least 50% would be replaced.
it is better to make IQ a self-fulfilling prophecy than to justify the result with differences in IQ after the race has been run. this is what meritocracy means. with transparent meritocracy comes LESS inequality. because there is no longer any confusion as to why some have high rank and others low.
without transparency in assignment of rank there’s endless obscuring of what makes the high and the low in rank different.
charles murray has a fake accent and he has the ‘rhoids.
the bottom line is:
any who would rationalize a given social order must admit that societies can be rationalized.
why does that matter?
it matters because…
any austrian/libertarian types who also claim that social rank is explained by IQ are contradicting themselves.
of course they’re too effeminate to see that they’re contradicting themselves.
ayn rand was a woman…after all. consistency is not a feminine.
the wise leader kim jong trump
August 3, 2017 at 4:04 PM
“US education system rewards attributes other than IQ, like striverishness”
It’s really Anglo Prole Phenomenon — again, again and again, East Asians and non-whites are widespread in Anglo societies. Me think Anglo society encourages striving and it’s prole!
JS
August 3, 2017 at 8:19 PM
Let Harvard do what they want but make it illegal for employers to ask people where they went to college (or even if they did for non-technical jobs)
pumpkinperson
August 3, 2017 at 3:18 PM
Also make it it illegal to tell prospective employers where you went to college (don’t ask, don’t tell policy, just like Clinton had for gays in the military)
pumpkinperson
August 3, 2017 at 3:28 PM
And make it illegal to hire based on connections. Jobs should have to be openly advertised and they should sort the applicants with a transparent system with a proven record for predicting job performance.
If you just make universities hire based on a prediction of grades, and allow employers to keep hiring based on where people went to school, you’ll end up with a giant mess.
Magnavox
August 3, 2017 at 3:58 PM
So, Magnavox, you don’t support affirmative-action?
CamelCaseRob
August 3, 2017 at 5:32 PM
I am totally opposed to affirmative action. School admissions should be based purely on a prediction of grades. Employment should be based purely on a prediction of job performance. I support using race to make those predictions where it helps, but that would probably end up hurting the traditional beneficiaries of affirmative action.
The closest thing to affirmative action that i support is doing predictions of performance in a few years rather than immediately. For instance, I think colleges should admit students based on junior and senior year grades. This would select for students who were disadvantaged in some way but that the school environment is capable of helping.
Magnavox
August 3, 2017 at 6:45 PM
No way! You should give preference to your family and your tribe. Strangers will do nothing for you, but your own blood will. This is very simple, so I don’t know what you guys and Magna are talking about. You are totally automized. Obviously, I’m gonna give my cousin or nephew the first shot. You gonna betray your family, Magna? Why? This is bottom of the barrel.
Yakov
August 3, 2017 at 8:18 PM
Ivy League admissions committees saw this problem years ago and tried to do something about it – at least at Harvard. Read about this in Jerome Karabel’s PhD thesis “Who gets into Harvard?” I bought it from UMI years ago. In the 1920’s, the group that people felt was a threat to the Ivy League image was Jews. Today it is Asians.
The easiest way for these schools to maintain a large percentage of white Christian students (I’m referring to nominally Christian students, for the most party) is for white Christians to produce more academically inclined children. Karabel’s research indicates that far from discriminating against “flyover” whites (who are primarily not Jewish) Ivy League schools bend over backwards to admit them. But this demographic just doesn’t produce as large a percentage of hard-working achievers.
As everyone here knows, you need to do more than get “good grades” and good test scores to be admitted to an Ivy school. You have to live a very rigid way of life for a full 3 1/2 to 4 years as a teenager. No kid is going to do this unless he has someone pushing him to do it. Most people simply don’t want to see their kids live this way. But whites and white Christians in particular, have no business objecting when Asians and Jews get admitted to prestigious colleges. Given the demographics that still exist, white Christians should be a much higher percentage of selective schools. That they aren’t is their own fault.
maryk
August 3, 2017 at 4:13 PM
“for the most party”
* for the most part.
maryk
August 3, 2017 at 4:14 PM
High school’s supposed to be the best years of your life. Who wants to spend them worrying about getting into an elite school? So glad we don’t really have elite colleges in Canada.
pumpkinperson
August 3, 2017 at 5:00 PM
No, college is supposed to be the best years of your life.
Lion of the Blogosphere
August 3, 2017 at 6:20 PM
No, every age is the best in it’s own way. Life is good. Period.
Yakov
August 3, 2017 at 8:20 PM
“No, every age is the best in it’s own way. Life is good. Period.”
Now that’s wisdom!
Mike Street Station
August 3, 2017 at 10:26 PM
No, college is supposed to be the best years of your life.
Maybe in New York City but in the heartland a lot of people don’t even go to college and traditionally got married right after high school. There’s even a book called is there life after high school? about the depression people face never being able to top being star of the high school football team or Queen of the Prom.
pumpkinperson
August 3, 2017 at 11:23 PM
‘There’s even a book called is there life after high school? about the depression people face never being able to top being star of the high school football team or Queen of the Prom.’
Now that you’ve mentioned it, I’d always wanted to do competitive sports, but only was able to do it in Russia. Now at 58 I’m competing again. America! Tri-state are has tons of nice races of all kinds. Nice!
So the thing is this – in life you’ve got to fulfill your obligations first, because life is all about duty and obligations. If you are lucky, like I’m, you will get some time to do your thing.
Yakov
August 4, 2017 at 8:32 AM
As everyone here knows, you need to do more than get “good grades” and good test scores to be admitted to an Ivy school. You have to live a very rigid way of life for a full 3 1/2 to 4 years as a teenager.
Do you ever think that maybe, just maybe, the ivy league notions of character and which extra circular activities are considered worthwhile are biased against some groups?
Magnavox
August 3, 2017 at 6:49 PM
I’m not really sure which “groups” you mean. But character has nothing to do with it. You can’t discern character from extra-curricular “volunteer work” that is only being done to impress an admissions committee. And people now pick extra-curriculars with college admissions in mind. My point is that you have to structure your whole life around getting into a college and spent your years between age 14 and age 18 on activities that can be listed on a high school resume’. A lot of things in life that are important – time spent with family, time in religious training, time spent doing important reading – can’t really be quantified and have to be put on hold. A lot of kids who spend their high school lives aiming for an Ivy admission are not going to make it. Then they’ll feel like losers. Many people don’t want their kids going through this kind of pressure. I wasn’t making a value judgment – just pointing out that there’s a price to pay for being on the fast-track.
maryk
August 3, 2017 at 9:05 PM
‘My point is that you have to structure your whole life around getting into a college and spent your years between age 14 and age 18 on activities that can be listed on a high school resume’.
Epitome of being a phony and they call it ‘ charachter’, lolz!
Yakov
August 3, 2017 at 10:32 PM
Point for point, maryk gets it right.
Get a life
August 4, 2017 at 8:34 AM
The Tiger Mum thing is a myth. All parents of all races push their kids to do well in school. The reason Asians spend their high school years studying for the future is because they have high IQ, they suck at sports, they have low sexual market value, and they are not funny or charismatic. So they play to their strengths, which are academics.
DataExplorer
August 3, 2017 at 7:34 PM
Some good points, but how do Asian women have low sexual market value?
Lewis Medlock
August 3, 2017 at 8:41 PM
“All parents of all races push their kids to do well in school”
I’m afraid this isn’t true. Most parents SAY they’d like their kids to do well in school. But a good many parents spend little or no time talking to their kids about school – asking what homework was given, checking to see if it’s done. When I took my PSAT, my parents didn’t even tell me how the test was structured. I did no studying for it and didn’t really understand the penalties (back then at least) for guessing. I received a score so low that if I told you what it was you might accuse me of being retarded.
There are more apathetic parents than responsible parents. It’s a question of judging most parents by what they do rather than what they say. Go to an average public library. You won’t find 6 copies of an SAT review book. But you’ll always find 6 copies of the latest Danielle Steele novel. What does this say about people’s priorities?
maryk
August 3, 2017 at 9:15 PM
There were plenty of free SAT prep books at the high school library.
Lion of the Blogosphere
August 3, 2017 at 9:34 PM
“There were plenty of free SAT prep books at the high school library.”
I actually hadn’t even considered the high school library. I was thinking more of the parents who’d want their kid to get a high SAT score and would seek out a book. Although parents who are serious about their kid’s educations really should just BUY the SAT review book instead of getting it from the library, where it will have to be returned in a few weeks. Buying a single book is not as costly as an SAT prep course. I don’t know how many SAT review books were in my own high school library. But you went to a selective high school, so it’s likely that your school had many more than most HS libraries would.
maryk
August 3, 2017 at 9:55 PM
Lewis Medlock — if you think Asian women are known for their voluptuousness — then yes!
JS
August 3, 2017 at 10:31 PM
> Given the demographics that still exist, white Christians should be a much higher percentage of selective schools. That they aren’t is their own fault.
Are you familiar with Ron Unz’s investigation on elite college admissions? He concluded admissions deliberately disadvantages christians in favor of jews. Jews are far over represented in the ivy league beyond any meritocratic basis.
bobbybobbob
August 4, 2017 at 3:30 PM
Jewishness isn’t considered as a factor, negative or positive. If Jews have an average IQ of 115 (vs. 100 for gentile whites), and 5% of whites are “Jewish,” then there will be lots of Jews at the most elite schools.
Lion of the Blogosphere
August 4, 2017 at 5:42 PM
lion is more right than he knows.
there are many IQ tests.
they’re all correlated, but far from perfectly.
115 is far too high an estimate for most IQ tests, but for VIQ it’s possible.
and VIQ is much more rewarded in america it seems.
but as i’ve said i don’t thin jews or quarter jews actually are over-represented controlling for “full scale” IQ. all those hillel figures are bullshit.
interesting note against the anti-semite crazies…
jews should score significantly higher on the stanford-binet than they score on the wechsler. terman and binet wer gentiles. david wechsler was jewish, but his test actually under-rates jews.
the wise leader kim jong trump
August 4, 2017 at 8:47 PM
The problem is asians evolved to do well on tests (the Asian beaurocratic system) and whites evolved to do well in life (Europe has long been basically capitalistic). As a result Asian test scores always seems to be higher than the ability of the students to accomplish out of box tasks, where I think they are similar skill level of whites.
Gs
August 3, 2017 at 4:17 PM
Or maybe Asians just cheat more.
CamelCaseRob
August 3, 2017 at 5:37 PM
The Chinese have a 2000 year head start they have been taking standardized tests since 200BC, pretty much invented it so it part of their culture now. They used it to become a civil servant, basically a cushy government job for life that your future generations could benefit from.
Stan
August 5, 2017 at 2:45 AM
No, Harvard, Yale, Princeton is very different from Stuy today, or MIT or Calltech. The plaintiff will have to enter some details about White bachelor students, half of wich are jews. They don’t communicate average jewish white SAT compared to non jewish White SAT (I have no idea if jewish white are advantaged or not). Then, knowing that half of the pundits are jewish, as NY law firm partners and loads of goldman “partners” The conversation will be quite interesting about meritocracy, much more than only “yellow” statistics. It is all the system that risk being reengineered.
Bruno
August 3, 2017 at 4:36 PM
Harvard Yale Princeton doesn’t know who’s Jewish. Jews just are treated as white.
Lion of the Blogosphere
August 3, 2017 at 6:20 PM
That seems naive. I bet they do know who is jewish based on names and essays. Also, they can not know who is jewish but jews could still benefit from disparate impact (which for all of its abuses is a legitimate and important concept!!!). Not knowing who is jewish only rules out disparate treatment.
Magnavox
August 3, 2017 at 6:51 PM
An essay wouldn’t reveal the religion of the author. Who writes about religion on an Ivy League application essay?
They don’t keep track of Jews. They are treated as whites.
Lion of the Blogosphere
August 3, 2017 at 8:02 PM
I bet it comes up a lot in essays. And it wouldn’t have to kept track of. An admissions officer could consciously make note of it and grade the essay or right for the applicant accordingly. It could also be entirely subconscious.
And you don’t bother to counter it so I assume you agree that the notions of character and values that elite schools reward are both arbitrary and in almost perfect alignment with secular jewish culture. This is disparate impact discrimination.
Magnavox
August 3, 2017 at 8:35 PM
Jews aren’t sought out. Harvard seeks diversity, and another kid from the NYC area is not diversity.
Lion of the Blogosphere
August 3, 2017 at 9:31 PM
I can understand why Harvard doesn’t want too many high achieving asian students. If they spend their evenings and weekends at places like Kumon to boost there test scored and grades, it stunts the type of personality development that helps contribute to the school environment. Grinds with poor social skills who spend most their time in the library are not what most universities want.
Alex
August 3, 2017 at 6:40 PM
HBD already tells you that inherent racial differences are real and racial minorities are happier associating with their own and not with the White majority. Segregation and secession will be the last hope for humanity in America. And Anglo Prole societies have always been divisive and cliquish to make things worse.
JS
August 3, 2017 at 10:25 PM
Exactly! If Harvard loses prestige, America wins. And if Harvard became 40% Asian Harvard would lose prestige. But don’t bet on it.
gothamette
August 3, 2017 at 6:54 PM
This is my theory as well. The white liberal SJW elite should be replaced by minorities to take them out of power. Granted, the minority is still likely left leaning, but most are not as a radical as white leftists. It’s a net gain.
A little self-serving, sure. But I’ve yet to hear a plausible plan from the alt-right to remove these people from power.
Jason Liu
August 3, 2017 at 7:30 PM
Noone else is saying that. Everyone else thinks that Harvard will become a bunch of asians who are really good at undergraduate course work and everyone else will stop thinking that a Harvard degree entitles you to anything. So it won’t elevate asians it will denigrate Harvard.
Magnavox
August 3, 2017 at 8:36 PM
Sounds like a win.
Mike Street Station
August 3, 2017 at 10:28 PM
>>>But would it be a good thing for the nation as a whole? I say yes. Anything that reduces the prestige and influence of elite liberal Ivy League professors is a good thing for American. Forcing Harvard to treat Asians fairly would, maybe, force a reckoning about the truth of HBD.
Absolutely yes. And I hope that all the other Ivies are compelled to go 40% Asian too.
Also, removing financial aid won’t let Harvard off the hook. Harvard still receives $100s of millions per year in research grants. The government has them by the balls here. I guess, though, with a $20 billion endowment they could tell the govt. to screw off and live off that exclusively, but $20 billion can be spent a lot faster than most of us think.
Daniel
August 3, 2017 at 8:46 PM
Lion, I knew that Jews are counted amount White and specific data are not provided by Universities that’s why I wrote : “The plaintiff will have to enter some details about White bachelor students, half of wich are jews.”
I don’t know how the data is provided but for example you found in Ron Unz article this graphic with the half figure. It can be a mixture of name, self reported information, intestest groups …. Maybe it’s fake, but it would be astonishing because there is also data for Nation merit, Fullbright, Rhodes etc from diverses sources, with many differences (not a figure that everyone copy) with a global picture seeming coherent. But it will better if there were more specifics. I don’t understand how Universities give so much details about race, gender, sexual orientation, legacy, parents revenue etc. and not about religion. For example, everyone know that 2/3 of the supreme court justices are catholics and 1/3 jewish wich is quite stunning in a supposedly WASP country. The other factor is that jewish were discriminated against at the beginning of the century and their representation wildly studied, so the knowledge should be of interest. That’s why I believe this litigation could have a broader impact than just the question of asian-american per se.
Bruno
August 3, 2017 at 9:37 PM
Neither side trusts WASPs on the abortion issue.
The Jewish figure could be true, but sounds like it was made-up bullshit because colleges don’t report or track Jewishness.
Lion of the Blogosphere
August 3, 2017 at 10:36 PM
Not surprised about Dartmouth being an Ivy League mostly suited for White Gentiles and its low rankings as a result. Schools reserved for genteel White gentiles tend to be less ruthless when it comes to striving for money, because the demographics are mostly White and they are far fewer non-whites to make it a rat race.
Geography might also play a role. It’s located in New Hampshire.
JS
August 3, 2017 at 11:26 PM
Everyone knows if Wikipedia is to be believed:
“Following the retirement of John Paul Stevens in June 2010, the Court had an entirely non-Protestant composition for the first time in its history.[77][78] Although Neil Gorsuch, appointed in 2017, attends an Episcopalian church, he was raised Catholic and it is unclear if he considers himself a Catholic or a Protestant.[75]”
Bruno
August 3, 2017 at 9:39 PM
What would we do without Wikipedia. If going to a specific church is inadequate for showing adherence, why limit the options to just Catholicism or Protestantism? Perhaps he considers himself an atheist, a satanist, a Mormon …..
Richard
August 3, 2017 at 11:16 PM
I don’t understand why it is not part of the est-asian claim and public conversation to know the jewish figure. Because, if there are truly only 23% of non jewish whites at Ivy and the same number of jewish, it is central to the question, and it’s – in terme of rationality, a winning argument for anti-discrimination people :
1) If the SAT/GPA of jewish is (like east-asian or indian average), East-asian could say, let us be over-represented as jewish are, based on our merit. All the line of arguments is on your differents comments here Lion …
2) If the SAT of jewish is the same as gentile White, they could say that jewish are white people who get the black preference. So they wouldn’t be attacking only under-privileged minorites (black and latino) but also a white elite + their wouldn’t be chasing for a part of 25 % spots (latino and black) but around 50%.
3) IF the SAT of jewish is low, then the argument would be much more wide and vivid: East-Asian, as non jewish white, are discriminated against to give place to two very different groupes : the jewish people and the black and latino. And that would reveal a “racist” policy based on historic anti-discrimination practices (only one being obvious, the one for black and latinos).
Bruno
August 4, 2017 at 3:59 AM
“23% of non jewish whites at Ivy and the same number of jewish”
Those figures are supplied by Jew haters on the internet and not by the schools themselves, therefore cannot be trusted. They are surely counting many non-Jews as Jews in order to further their theory of sinister Jewish domination.
Lion of the Blogosphere
August 4, 2017 at 7:27 AM
“If the SAT/GPA of jewish is (like east-asian or indian average), East-asian could say, let us be over-represented as jewish are, based on our merit”
Right, I said that we should let the Asians be over-represented.
Lion of the Blogosphere
August 4, 2017 at 7:28 AM
They are surely counting many non-Jews as Jews in order to further their theory of sinister Jewish domination.
They’re counting partial Jews as full Jews. Because of intermarriage half of all college age Jewish students have one gentile parent. The Jewish percentage of Ivy League schools for those with 2 Jewish parents is between 10% 15%, another 10% to 15% are half Jewish.
The statistic is a lie because it leaves out the effect of intermarriage on the pool of available college age Jews.
The Undiscovered Jew
August 4, 2017 at 11:22 AM
discriminated against to give place to two very different groupes : the jewish people
AA quotas equally discriminate against Jews because Jews are grouped with other whites on admissions forms.
The Undiscovered Jew
August 4, 2017 at 11:24 AM
I didn’t know that. Ron Unz is an Harvard/Stanford jewish. Maybe he has self hate.
Bruno
August 4, 2017 at 7:51 AM
The core being the proportion of jewish students – I have to recognize – because those propositions cannot be true together :
1) The jewish have the same SAT than East-Asian
2) A significant proportion (between 15% and 50%) of the white are jewish
because it would imply that the white non jewish are at the same times very underepresented and would have an average SAT similar to the one of latino (to make up the white score), wich is absolutely impossible.
So either there are less than 15% jewish students at Ivies either we are in the hypothesis 2 or 3 you’re discarting a priori.
I don’t think you biased because you’ve always developped a very sound judgment based on reasoning but in this very important matter, college determining widely the amount of success, things don’t appear to me as very clear. As I always thought that jews had 115 IQ and that SAT had a perfect correlation with IQ and knowing the sucess on merit of jewish from the 20′ and 30′ and the discrimination than ensued and the fact that more than one third of white nobel prizes-like in physics/medecine/math/economy were jewish, I never thought about hypothesis 2 and 3. But now, I’m much more circonspect while still being philo-semite.
Bruno
August 4, 2017 at 8:03 AM
To me Lion, it seems you and your readers (most, not all) are jealous of asian american success.
Why does it matter how they succeed?
If they’re grind, let them be grinds, and let the non-grinds enjoy life better.
I think a lot of the readers resent asians from working hard and getting success. The same resentment that jews faced back in 1920 onward.
This argument by the Lion that jews have higher IQ so they should have more spots in IVYs is rediculous. The same criteria that kept jews out (leadership, extracuriculars) is now keeping asian out as rich jewish kids and their parents have adapted by living in scarsdale or whenever. Now that asians are adapting to this criteria for selection, harvard and Yale can’t justify keeping asians out any longer.
What’s wrong harvard being 40%? Who cares that the whites don’t like being around schools that are 40% as long as asians are clones (ie leadership clubs, etc). Why have blacks, half-blacks, nigerians, white mexicans, native americans with scores 2 – 3 standard deviations in harvard and princeton. Do we really need 28% of the these schools having low performing students?
If anything, its white racism promoting under qualified blacks and hispanics to positions they are not qualified for at all.
Lion I’m very disappointing in your post.
uman
August 5, 2017 at 10:48 AM
I advocated for Harvard letting in as many Asians as are qualified to get in.
Lion of the Blogosphere
August 5, 2017 at 12:46 PM
Harvard is a country club, the same goes for Yale, less so of Princeton. And I assume Dartmouth has the nicest students of the Ivies. Wealthy White gentiles are the majority, and thus they are less striving. Strivers are usually not nice, let alone, fun people.
JS
August 5, 2017 at 1:27 PM
I question your claim that white parents are pulling their kids out of Stuyvesant because of the heavy Asian presence there. Considering how hard it is to get into the school in the first place, I would think they’d be grateful for the opportunity for the equivalent of an elite prep school experience at no tuition cost. Besides, given the competition, there probably aren’t a whole lot of white kids getting in there anymore anyway.
On the other hand, you might be right, so I would be interested to see how many kids drop out of Stuyvesant each year by race. Ditto for Bronx Science (my own alma mater) which these days doesn’t get a whole lot of white kids anymore due to its remote location. Only about 25% of the student body is from the Bronx these days, and there aren’t very many whites left there anyway.
sestamibi
August 5, 2017 at 7:44 PM
There aren’t many prole youths in NYC anymore, especially in Manhattan. Most SWPL parents just send their kids to private high schools. They don’t even bother taking the exam for Stuyvesant, and why would they?
Walk the streets of Manhattan, it isn’t Silicon Valley. If Stuyvesant was a good school, Manhattan would be another Bay Area, and it isn’t!!!
White elites groom their children to become the next line of elites. No STEM grind becomes an elite in America.
JS
August 5, 2017 at 9:58 PM